Gay marriage and probabilities Gay marriage, states of the worl

[creekster]

Originally Posted by KneeJerk

It works that way for age, and age alone. Age is the only basic human trait that I can think of for which we can justifiably divvy up civil rights. Can you name another? Another besides sexual orientation with regard to marriage?

I'm trying to figure out if sexual orientation is some special exception, like age, for which the world can justify the denial of civil rights. If there are a lot of other core identity traits like age and sexual orientation, that justify discrimination, then I would like to know what they are.

ANd the only basis that you see for imposing reason, science and scoail standards on an otherwise subjective matter is becasue we don't throw babies to wolves? WHat about a society that practices infanticide on some basis (such as gender)?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by KneeJerk

I would argue that we recognize a difference between core human rights and civil rights. Human rights belong to everyone, regardless of age. Civil rights are defined by and divvied up by the state.

Does this really require an explanation? Or are you stalling? A moment ago you were talking about all of the ways that people's self-definition could be used to deny them civil rights. Now you are having me justify why we don't let toddlers get married and why, as a society, we can justifiably set the drinking age to 21. Were you really going to build your entire case on age-based arguments?

I am not building a case. I am trying to see exactly what yours is. I am not trying to make you justify society's deiciosns. You asked me to divorce the discussion from the specific, so I have. But you assert age can be distinguished from others core values and adjusted by science, scoail standards, etc. I want to know why it is unique. WHy, according ot you, can we adjust for age based on social standards but it is not acceptable to adjust for any other 'core' value? As you know, Waters has determined I am a moron, so maybe I don't get it.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by KneeJerk

But I have just answered my own question. A person's sanity, like age, is also a key trait used to deny civil rights.

Can you come up with others?

What about consanguinity? Otherwise, wouldn't we have to permit a mother and her adult daughter to marry (I assume no perverse motives on their part, but rather a desire to avail themselves of tax or employer benefits given only to marrieds)? Past behavior is another (felons can't vote). And what is the basis for denying three or more adults from entering into a polygamous relationship?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

What about consanguinity? Otherwise, wouldn't we have to permit a mother and her adult daughter to marry (I assume no perverse motives on their part, but rather a desire to avail themselves of tax or employer benefits given only to marrieds)? Past behavior is another (felons can't vote). And what is the basis for denying three or more adults from entering into a polygamous relationship?

the argument against consanguinity could be related to coercion.

Just like a psychiatrist can't have a consensual sexual relationship with an adult patient, a parent can't have a consensual sexual relationship with their adult offspring.