Monson: Gay Marriage Fight in CA 'Is Our Gettysburg'

[RC Vikings]

Are we doing any good if all we are doing is slowing down the inevitable? Could all the time and money being spent be put to better use elsewhere.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Brigham Young's July, 1859 interview with the renowned newspaper editor Horace Greeley, makes Brigham's view of slavery pretty clear. I am unaware of any controversy regarding it, other than the SL Trib reprinted it in the early 90s (which is how I first came upon it). From the interview (capitalizations are in original):

H.G.: What is the position of your Church with respect to Slavery?

B.Y.: We consider it of Divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his decendants.

H.G.: Are there any slaves now held in this Territory?

B.Y.: There are.

H.G.: Do your Territorial laws uphold Slavery?

B.Y.: Those laws are printed--you can read them for yourself. If slaves are brought here by those who owned them in the states, we do not favor their escape from the service of those owners.

H.G.: Am I to infer that Utah, if admitted as a member of the Federal Union, will be a Slave State?

B.Y.: No; she will be a Free State. Slavery here would prove useless and unprofitable. I regard it generally as a curse to the masters. I myself hire many laborers and pay them fair wages; I could not afford to own them. I can do better than subject myself to an obligation to feed and clothe their families, to provide and care for them, in sickness and health. Utah is not adapted to Slave Labor.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

And all this time you thought it was never wrong.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

And all this time you thought it was never wrong.

lol yeah. Never wrong like like Urban VIII wasn't wrong to excommunicate Galileo.

just sayin...

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

I don't think the 1859 quote gives an entirely complete view of Young's view on slavery. For example in 1860 we have the following from The Office Journal of President Brigham Young, 1858-1863 Book D. Ed. Fred C. Collier. Hannah, UT: Collier’s Publishing Co., 2006[1]:

Dec. 26, 1860 (pg. 184)

Mr. Creighton called in and had Some Conversation with him upon the Government and remarked [that] the South had not learned to govern by whipping &c. riding Niggers. Slavery is the ruin of the South observed the President. The South has a beautiful climate and rich soil, but slavery ruins any soil. To these remarks Mr. Creighton acquiesced.

This is not to suggest that Brigham Young didn't hold racist views (and yes I am well aware of the many quotes that highlight racist positions) but he just not quite the one-dimmensional bigot he is often painted as here on the guard.


[1] See, http://www.splendidsun.com/wp/the-of...8-1863-book-d/

[MikeWaters]

where are the anti-slavery quotes? seriously, I would like to see them to help balance things.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

where are the anti-slavery quotes? seriously, I would like to see them to help balance things.

Waters people are responding to the following quote of Brigham Young that I highlighted earlier in the thread:

The South has a beautiful climate and rich soil, but slavery ruins any soil. --Brigham Young, 1860

[MikeWaters]

that quote, with the words that proceded it make no sense.

Is he saying they whip niggers too much, or not enough? Is he saying that niggers are so awful that they RUIN the land?

Based on his beliefs, it would not surprise me if this is correct.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is he saying they whip niggers too much, or not enough? Is he saying that niggers are so awful that they RUIN the land?

Talk about willfully misreading. You are so consumed about seeing past LDS teachings in the worst possible light that you probably do think that is a reasonable reading.

Now my Bayesian friend. Update your prior; I know it won't move much but it should move at least a tiny bit. I found an anti-slavery statement.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Talk about willfully misreading. You are so consumed about seeing past LDS teachings in the worst possible light that you probably do think that is a reasonable reading.

Now my Bayesian friend. Update your prior; I know it won't move much but it should move at least a tiny bit. I found an anti-slavery statement.

I looked at the tea leaves and decided they are tea leaves.

His statement about Utah slavery is not particularly enlightened, although possibly interpreted as mildly anti-slavery (i.e. "slaves are too expensive.")

Slaves ruin the land. Why? Maybe they ruin the view. Maybe they cost too much.

Is there any other quote? One that would build on the notion that BY was anti-slavery? Versus the mountain of evidence that he was pro-slavery. Who is misreading the priors?