Speech still resounds

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Awesome. I'm installing iron bars tonight, so I too can have the pious, poorer-than-thou ground.

Actually the bars are pretty expensive. It's one of those things where you can never catch up:

1. if you buy bars, people will say wow, he has a lot of money to buy that
2. but if you don't have bars, those with bars will always have moral superiority.

You always lose to me.

But you could win against someone else if you get bars now, and then compare yourself to someone else two years from now.

I know ER docs make decent money, and you must be 50 years old or so based on the experience you cite, so I'm wondering if you are saving up for the down payment on a mansion or something.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I note the author of the article is a highly educated, highly accomplished, widely published woman who has had a long and fruitful career.

"Loh graduated from Caltech with a BS in Physics, and returned in 2005 to deliver its commencement speech. She is also a graduate of the Master of Professional Writing Program at the University of Southern California. Her early career as a performance artist included a piano concert on a freeway overpass in Downtown Los Angeles, and one in which she distributed hundreds of one-dollar-bills. She went on to perform a number of well-received autobiographical one-woman shows, in which she developed a particular form of observation humor. Her delivery style is generally ironic and spoken somewhat quickly."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Tsing_Loh

What I read someone like this saying is she'd rather live the life of an aristocrat, a gentleman intellectual like Tolstoy or Plato. So would I! I'd love to have a "Marth Stewart Lifestyle" (her words). She should be damn glad Sister Beck was not ner mother, or else whe wouldn't have felt perfectly free to get many degrees, become excellent enough intellectually to write iconoclastic articles for the Atlantic. Of course she's going against the Feminist Church now. That's what she's been raised, and educated to do. She wouldn't be the same person, and she might not be as happy and self-satisfied if she were raised by Sister Beck.

This is a lot like Orson Scott Card condemning Mormons for being too materialistic.

I can tell you haven't read the article.

I hope your daughters didn't inherit your propensity to judge first, inform never.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Now, I encourage my daughters toward higher education and higher paying careers. In one respect, that's just practical. If you left your wife she'd get at most about six years of a portion of your salary and half your savings even if she were a high school graduate. I also value education like Mormons value temple worship. I think education is one of the most important things in life and the Beck ethos winds up cheating women of it.

Do you believe Mormons as a whole (including the leaders of the LDS church) value education?

Education is for this life. Temple work is for the afterlife. I'd say Mormons value both equally.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I can tell you haven't read the article.

I hope your daughters didn't inherit your propensity to judge first, inform never.

I sped read it. I know what she's saying, and she is the personification of exactly what I want for my daughters. All she's saying is she's at the top of the triangle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow&...archy_of_needs

She wants a life of leisure like the Greeks defined it. So do I. It's the apotheosis of civilization. Of course. She's been fully realized professionally.

She's also writing for the Atlantic Monthly. The Atlantic is kown for radical chic articles like this one that really aren't so radical. And you won't find it next to Ladies' Home Journal or People Magazine. People with letters after their names tend to read it.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Actually the bars are pretty expensive. It's one of those things where you can never catch up:

1. if you buy bars, people will say wow, he has a lot of money to buy that
2. but if you don't have bars, those with bars will always have moral superiority.

You always lose to me.

But you could win against someone else if you get bars now, and then compare yourself to someone else two years from now.

I know ER docs make decent money, and you must be 50 years old or so based on the experience you cite, so I'm wondering if you are saving up for the down payment on a mansion or something.

Are ER docs and psychiatrists at the bottom of the rung for physician incomes? I'm just asking because that's what it seems from your posts.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I sped read it. I know what she's saying, and she is the personification of exactly what I want for my daughters. All she's saying is she's at the top of the triangle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow&...archy_of_needs

She wants a life of leisure like the Greeks defined it. So do I. It's the apotheosis of civilization. Of course. She's been fully realized professionally.

She's also writing for the Atlantic Monthly. The Atlantic is kown for radical chic articles like this one that really aren't so radical. And you won't find it next to Ladies' Home Journal or People Magazine. People with letters after their names tend to read it.

You should read another article in that same issue. About whether "Google is making us Stoopid". Your "speed-reading" of this article is QED of that other article.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Are ER docs and psychiatrists at the bottom of the rung for physician incomes? I'm just asking because that's what it seems from your posts.

Depends on what you mean by near the bottom. Specialists make the most. Like opthamologists, dermatologists, cardiovascular surgeons, cardiologists, radiologists.

Compared to these guys, ER docs don't make nearly as much. Psychiatrists make even less than ER docs. Psychiatrists make about the same as family physicians. Pediatricians are the worst payed.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Depends on what you mean by near the bottom. Specialists make the most. Like opthamologists, dermatologists, cardiovascular surgeons, cardiologists, radiologists.

Compared to these guys, ER docs don't make nearly as much. Psychiatrists make even less than ER docs. Psychiatrists make about the same as family physicians. Pediatricians are the worst payed.

in zip code 84606 (Utah), ER physician at 25% percentile makes 192k.

25th for psychiatrist is 145k.

A GI doc at 25th percentile makes 232k in Provo.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Are ER docs and psychiatrists at the bottom of the rung for physician incomes? I'm just asking because that's what it seems from your posts.

Average ER doc probably makes a little more than your average psychiatrist, but a lot less than your average dermatologist/ophthalmologist/orthopedic/plastic surgeon. ER is somewhere between generalists (ped/FP/internists) and specialists, but closer to the generalists.

We save a lot. We also are pretty careful to keep our standard of living fairly average. I'm nervous about setting our children's expectations for future living high so that they feel the need to pursue a high-paying career; I want them to be able to do what they love, without thinking too much about income.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Average ER doc probably makes a little more than your average psychiatrist, but a lot less than your average dermatologist/ophthalmologist/orthopedic/plastic surgeon. ER is somewhere between generalists (ped/FP/internists) and specialists, but closer to the generalists.

We save a lot. We also are pretty careful to keep our standard of living fairly average. I'm nervous about setting our children's expectations for future living high so that they feel the need to pursue a high-paying career; I want them to be able to do what they love, without thinking too much about income.

Good thinking.