Anyone been to Nauvoo / Winter Quarters / Independence?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Solon

There's just something about permanently erasing an artifact from the past that I find melancholy. I'm not outraged, or even upset. Just a little sad that something historical has been deliberately erased.



That makes sense that it would be Hyrum. He was shot in the face, near the door, I believe. Joseph ended up falling from the window.

It's probably just as well. We don't need relics.

[ute4ever]

Re: sanding the floorboards

My hunch is that it had more to do with respect than anything.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Re: sanding the floorboards

My hunch is that it had more to do with respect than anything.

I agree...it was likely something that was viewed to be rather morose (even though it is the site of a martyrdom).

For historical purposes, perhaps they removed the floorboard and replaced it, while keeping the stained portion in Church archives, but this would be a guess. It would seem to be crazy to simply destroy it. I can see taking it out of public view, though.

I think another reason is simply that the Church wants to keep all emphasis on the Savior. By removing the blood stains, it took away some of the sensationalism and perhaps well-meaning comparisons between Joseph Smith and the Savior. Now people can be in the room and just focus on the story, as opposed to snapping pictures of blood stains on the floor.

[YOhio]

I'm skeptical that a stain on the floor was really the blood of Joseph Smith anyways. There are a thousand different reasonable explanations for a stain on the floor. Like, for instance, the fact that it was a jail. Inmates do crazy things. Also, the Browning family used the jail as a home for around 50 years until the church bought it in the early part of the 20th century.

The idea that the prophets blood permanently stained the floor seems far-fetched to me.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by creekster

It's probably just as well. We don't need relics.

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Re: sanding the floorboards

My hunch is that it had more to do with respect than anything.

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I agree...it was likely something that was viewed to be rather morose (even though it is the site of a martyrdom).

For historical purposes, perhaps they removed the floorboard and replaced it, while keeping the stained portion in Church archives, but this would be a guess. It would seem to be crazy to simply destroy it. I can see taking it out of public view, though.

I think another reason is simply that the Church wants to keep all emphasis on the Savior. By removing the blood stains, it took away some of the sensationalism and perhaps well-meaning comparisons between Joseph Smith and the Savior. Now people can be in the room and just focus on the story, as opposed to snapping pictures of blood stains on the floor.

I respect all your opinions as such.

However, I see nothing disrespectful about showing people where the blood of Hyrum was spilled. To erase it is to literally sanitize history, as if to say, "we know what posterity should see, and what it should not see." I find that attitude deeply hubristic.

It is my opinion that Church history sites are pretty much already "sanctuaries" filled with "relics" in the minds of many LDS faithful. I'm all about visiting historical sights in order to better appreciate important events. Geographic setting - even removed by hundreds or thousands of years - remains an important part of any story's context.

But let's not kid ourselves. LDS have our pilgrimage sites, our martyrs, our cult of saints, our miracles, our claim of uninterrupted priesthood continuity. We even have the transition from outcast religion to legitimate establishment. All we're missing is the candles.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by YOhio

I'm skeptical that a stain on the floor was really the blood of Joseph Smith anyways. There are a thousand different reasonable explanations for a stain on the floor. Like, for instance, the fact that it was a jail. Inmates do crazy things. Also, the Browning family used the jail as a home for around 50 years until the church bought it in the early part of the 20th century.

The idea that the prophets blood permanently stained the floor seems far-fetched to me.

I find your lack of faith disturbing....

[Solon]

Originally Posted by YOhio

I'm skeptical that a stain on the floor was really the blood of Joseph Smith anyways. There are a thousand different reasonable explanations for a stain on the floor. Like, for instance, the fact that it was a jail. Inmates do crazy things. Also, the Browning family used the jail as a home for around 50 years until the church bought it in the early part of the 20th century.

The idea that the prophets blood permanently stained the floor seems far-fetched to me.

I agree that, if there was blood on the floor (I haven't been to Carthage; I'm just remembering what I've heard and read), it's unlikely we'll ever know whose it was.

But sometimes the myth is more important than the fact. If people believe something is real, they treat it / act in a certain way. That belief informs a whole array of decisions and future actions. I'm fine with saying, "there's a tradition that this blood dates from 1844." I'm less comfortable with erasing the tradition altogether.

I guess it goes along with changing the words to "Praise to the Man" so that it no longer says, "Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins stain Illinois while the Earth lauds his fame."

On a related tangent, I recently visited the Shriver House in Gettysburg, PA. The house's attic was used in 1863 by Confederate snipers during the battle of Gettysburg, while members of the family hid out in the cellar. While performing recent restoration, the owners did some CSI-type stuff to the attic, and found a lot of blood residue. There were many obvious stains on the floor, easily seen with the naked eye, but much more was revealed through technology.

http://www.shriverhouse.org/csi_results.htm

I didn't find this at all disrespectful, but fascinating and touching in a way to think that real people had fought and died on that very spot. Seeing the residues of blood really drove home the horrors of war and made the story much more poignant.

[ute4ever]

The locals certainly know who their audience is. Pretty much every eatery in this small town of 1,100 is a buffet.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by grapevine

Heard John Taylor walked all the way back to his house to get his daughters doll while leaving nauvoo.

No, it was his son's rocking horse. Jeez get your stories right.

[ute4ever]