Brian and Fus's theory on God commanding Adam and Eve not to judge

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

What is evil/sin?

It's God created, so do I need to believe in a good vs evil force field to be a Chrisitan?

It's all an illusion that stems from the creation and our misinterpretation of the parts and players.

So what do you think about every prophet and apostle you've ever heard in general conference, every week you hear it taught in church, and the thousands of references to sin in the scriptures. Do you just think it's all a misinterpretation of what you know to be the true meaning of the "parable" of the Fall of Adam?

Jesus atoned for our sins.
Because of our sins we are seperated from God.
God can not look at sin with the least degree of allowance.
We need to repent of our sins.
We need to be baptized for remission of sin.
Because of the fall of Adam, sin was introduced into the world.
Jesus took upon himself our sins.
We need to forgive others of their sins because Jesus forgave us.

You're not sure about all this stuff that has been taught non-stop by every prophet and apostle who ever lived, but you're certain about this business about the secret meaning of the word perfect and the commandment not to partake of the fruit?

I'm fine with your beliefs and I respect them. But you definitely don't believe in Mormon or Christian doctrine.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by livecoug

wow fus, i don't know what to say... it would make more sense if you weren't of the mormon faith, but you contridict the church and it's doctrines so much, i don't know how to respond.

I contradict no doctrines.

I am using canon to explain my points of view.

I have shown that:

a. We are made in God's likeness - we all interpret this differently, that's ok

b. We are to be perfect - obviously attainable in this probation

c. God created evil - Begs the question, does evil exist in the way we currently see it?

I sincerely feel we all are baby steps away from realizing who we are, that's what the temple ceremony is all about. We are to imagine we are a person we currently aren't. The beauty of this, as Adam realizes he is Michael, so can we realize that we are a God.

Is it possible without the atonement? Of course it isn't, that's the principle part, but is it possible, I believe so.

I hope we all can see the face of God.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

What is evil/sin?

It's God created, so do I need to believe in a good vs evil force field to be a Chrisitan?

It's all an illusion that stems from the creation and our misinterpretation of the parts and players.

It's time to get down to the nitty-gritty here, fus.


1. Does sin exist?
2. If sin does not exist, why did Jesus come to earth? What was Gethsemane and Golgotha all about?
3. Why did we come to earth?
4. If we are already gods, what is the purpose of this existence?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by livecoug

wow fus, i don't know what to say... it would make more sense if you weren't of the mormon faith, but you contridict the church and it's doctrines so much, i don't know how to respond.

It almost sounds as if fuz is either baiting for discussion, or trying to sound smart without understanding.

Whenever I try to sound intelligent I fall on my face. When I try to understand, then things are revealed.

There are some basics, where sometime down the road, we might be able to see variations, but they still are basically true.

Sin is a deviation from law by somebody responsible for actions.

There is sin for if there were no sin, there would be no need for a Son expiating our sins, and no need for a Christ.

We are not perfect, we are not gods as humans.

We resemble our God, but that doesn't mean we are He.

I cannot determine if fuz is sincere, trying to bait, or trying to sound smart, because he challenges basic concepts without proper support.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

I contradict no doctrines.

I am using canon to explain my points of view.

I have shown that:

a. We are made in God's likeness - we all interpret this differently, that's ok

b. We are to be perfect - obviously attainable in this probation

c. God created evil - Begs the question, does evil exist in the way we currently see it?

I sincerely feel we all are baby steps away from realizing who we are, that's what the temple ceremony is all about. We are to imagine we are a person we currently aren't. The beauty of this, as Adam realizes he is Michael, so can we realize that we are a God.

Is it possible without the atonement? Of course it isn't, that's the principle part, but is it possible, I believe so.

I hope we all can see the face of God.

We all interpret a differently but there are some definitiely incorrect interpretations and yours is definitively incorrect.

We may not obtain flawlessness, we may obtain a certain level of completion in our actions.

God did NOT create evil. He permits it to operate within certain spheres. Where did you pull that notion? Philosophers and scribes have debated that one, but LDS doctrine is clear on that point.

God does NOT create evil.

IT is not possible for flawed beings to return to God without the atonement.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I cannot determine if fuz is sincere, trying to bait, or trying to sound smart, because he challenges basic concepts without proper support.

Archa,

I lost you about a week ago, sincerely I did.

I provided you with scriptures, I provided you with my thoughts, you counter with conjecture, and attacks.

Find me scriptures that say men are not God's. Find me scriptures where the commission is not to be perfect.

Does God not provide a way to follow all his commandments? If you believe in the Book of Mormon, you must believe we can be perfect, complete, or whole.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Archaea

God did NOT create evil. He permits it to operate within certain spheres. Where did you pull that notion? Philosophers and scribes have debated that one, but LDS doctrine is clear on that point.

God does NOT create evil.

IT is not possible for flawed beings to return to God without the atonement.

Isaiah 45:7-8

7 That they may know from the rising sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the Lord , and there is none else.

8 I form the light, and create the darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Archa,

I lost you about a week ago, sincerely I did.

I provided you with scriptures, I provided you with my thoughts, you counter with conjecture, and attacks.

Find me scriptures that say men are not God's. Find me scriptures where the commission is not to be perfect.

Does God not provide a way to follow all his commandments? If you believe in the Book of Mormon, you must believe we can be perfect, complete, or whole.

There is no attack here simply a repudiation of falsehood.

You don't understand the scriptures if you believe your interpretation.

God's is a possessive, as creekster has stated. I am NOT a god, far from it. Once upon a time, I may have had the chance to become like him, and perhaps if his grace softens me, a small chance exists that I may acquire a sufficient number of his attributes to return to him.

God is our originator, so we are his.

You read the scriptures out of context and disconnected to events. You see something not there.

I do this during and between calls so I'm not taking the time to show with scriptures, as the ones cited by you undo your thesis.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

It's time to get down to the nitty-gritty here, fus.

Glad to see another Nacho Libre fan on this site.

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

1. Does sin exist?

Yes, how we in LDS dogma describe it, I don't know if it does. I don't buy the constant power struggle between good and evil that started in the 'war in heaven.'

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

2. If sin does not exist, why did Jesus come to earth? What was Gethsemane and Golgotha all about?

We allow ourselves to be dominated by the natural, or carnal man. We are unable to overcome this man without the help from the divine. We can't help ourselves but judge, thus 'sin,' and thusly need a savior.

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

3. Why did we come to earth?

Further light and knowledge.

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

4. If we are already gods, what is the purpose of this existence?

Understand and accept our heritage, and serve as beacons of light for those in our 'world.' We are here to be tested, to be tried, to grow, learn, and mature. I don't know why I am fat, slow and ugly, but I do know I am to learn from my 'imperfections' and have enough faith in Jesus that these 'imperfections' become strenghts unto my posterity.

[Indy Coug]

So the only real sin is judging?