praying the right way - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

K-dog · 11-01-2007, 11:06 PM

The real question...is there a "right way" to give a baby blessing.

non sequitur · 11-01-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Give the boy a chance to succeed. If you reward him for failing efforts, you do not allow him to succeed.

It's a prayer, for crying out loud -- not a performance. I have a hard time believing you're sincere.

non sequitur · 11-01-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

If your reading skills are that deficient, you should seek extra help.

If God's comprehension skills are so deficient that a misplaced noun or verb trips Him up, then perhaps He is the one that ought to seek extra help.

cougjunkie · 11-01-2007, 11:20 PM

When I was 16 we had a kid that struggled with the prayer, and he was a very good friend of mine so I know for a fact that he was not worthy to even be blessing the sacrament. Well he messed up (with me sitting next to him) at least 9 or 10 times and kept starting over. He started over so much people started to murmur and sigh loudly. Finally the bishop walked down with the scriptures in his hand and they read it aloud together from teh scriptures. He was able to finish it that way but he made me say the prayer on the bread and water for the next month.

SteelBlue · 11-01-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

UtahDan, I understand the point. But in some ways isn't this the same "everyone gets a trophy" mantra that is so common these days?

Do it right. Do it right now. No excuses.

Where is the "trophy" in this situation? You make them read it twice, and that's still somewhat humiliating. You can say "do it right, do it right now" till you're blue in the face, that doesn't make it less traumatic and it doesn't make the kid a better reader or public speaker.

Reading it twice is no trophy, but it gets the message across. I think UtahDan's father had it exactly right.

hyrum · 11-01-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

They can go back and correct, if I'm bishop.

It's not a high bar.

You don't save kids by settling for mediocrity.

Have you heard the addage, "Praise publicly, criticise privately."??

Perhaps the proper way to teach a child that it is important to present something exactly right is to cut him some slack in front of the crowd, but separately, and privately, make him repeatedly practice it in front of you or a mentor until he gets it perfect.

MikeWaters · 11-01-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Where is the "trophy" in this situation? You make them read it twice, and that's still somewhat humiliating. You can say "do it right, do it right now" till you're blue in the face, that doesn't make it less traumatic and it doesn't make the kid a better reader or public speaker.

Reading it twice is no trophy, but it gets the message across. I think UtahDan's father had it exactly right.

If reading a prayer a few times in sacrament meeting is humiliation that we should at all costs try to avoid, then we have bigger problems I am afraid.

Why is everyone so fragile?

I like the Bishop who walked over the read it together with the boy. Finish what you start.

I've never met anyone that quit the church over this. IN our ward, we have a kid who is trying harder to get BETTER, to meet the standard. He is actually READING. It is a good thing. Is he better off if we said "hey, we know you get it wrong, don't worry about it, just read it off the best you can and don't bother again."

We have actually had someone called in the past to tutor this boy. A calling from the Bishop.

We are not humiliating him. We are putting the bar where it belongs, and trying to help him reach that bar. No one makes fun of him. He's a plucky kid, and knows that he needs to do better.

He has an uncertain future I am afraid, thanks to conservatives.

MikeWaters · 11-01-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyrum

Have you heard the addage, "Praise publicly, criticise privately."??

Perhaps the proper way to teach a child that it is important to present something exactly right is to cut him some slack in front of the crowd, but separately, and privately, make him repeatedly practice it in front of you or a mentor until he gets it perfect.

This has been done. For crying out loud, what's wrong with having to repeat it 2 or 3 times?

MikeWaters · 11-01-2007, 11:41 PM

Let me put this another way:

the crisis is not the humiliation he may or may not feel.

The crisis is that he can't freaking read, and is facing the world as a young adult without the tools to succeed. That is the crisis. Getting the prayer right is motivation, that will help him learn how to read.

Indy Coug · 11-02-2007, 12:15 AM

How about this: if the kid is struggling that bad, why don't they practice in the privacy of their room during the week? There are so few things in the church that are verbatim requirements I see no reason why we have to lower the standards.

The sacrament is a sacred covenant we make to obtain forgiveness for our sins, I think it's important enough to get the terms of the contract correct before we agree to it.

Can I get a "Hallelujah!" from the contingent of Cougarguard lawyers here?

11-01-2007, 11:06 PM	#31
K-dog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 699	The real question...is there a "right way" to give a baby blessing. __________________ He's down by the creek, walkin' on water. K-dog P.S. Grrrrrrrrr

11-01-2007, 11:20 PM	#34
cougjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 5,741	When I was 16 we had a kid that struggled with the prayer, and he was a very good friend of mine so I know for a fact that he was not worthy to even be blessing the sacrament. Well he messed up (with me sitting next to him) at least 9 or 10 times and kept starting over. He started over so much people started to murmur and sigh loudly. Finally the bishop walked down with the scriptures in his hand and they read it aloud together from teh scriptures. He was able to finish it that way but he made me say the prayer on the bread and water for the next month. __________________ LINCECUM!

11-01-2007, 11:41 PM	#39
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Let me put this another way: the crisis is not the humiliation he may or may not feel. The crisis is that he can't freaking read, and is facing the world as a young adult without the tools to succeed. That is the crisis. Getting the prayer right is motivation, that will help him learn how to read.

11-02-2007, 12:15 AM	#40
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	How about this: if the kid is struggling that bad, why don't they practice in the privacy of their room during the week? There are so few things in the church that are verbatim requirements I see no reason why we have to lower the standards. The sacrament is a sacred covenant we make to obtain forgiveness for our sins, I think it's important enough to get the terms of the contract correct before we agree to it. Can I get a "Hallelujah!" from the contingent of Cougarguard lawyers here?