the church's "White Shirt Policy"... - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Mormon Red Death · 01-17-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Isn't that the mentality of the Nazis?

You've got to be absolutely kidding me. Would you like to further expound on this brilliant analogy you've created?

Indy coug I guess I could expound that following orders just because you are ordered to is the same mentality that the nazis had (it was one of their main defenses) but I will let science explain it. If you ever heard of the Milgram experiment http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/psy...mpliance.shtml it demonstrates how dangerous and suceptible to following orders people are. Now am I saying that the brethren or even my stake president is a Nazi? Certainly not. What I am saying is that the mentality of just doing what I'm told because the other person is in authority is a dangerous position to take. If someone can give a GOOD reasonable argument for wearing a white shirt (besides the "Brethren want you to") I might do it. That isn't going to happen so I maintain my position that its a rule/culture norm that I won't do.

Indy Coug · 01-17-2006, 03:00 PM

The Nazi analogy is overwrought, incendiary and just plain inaccurate. If you can't understand the logical disconnect between the two... :shock:

ute4ever · 01-18-2006, 01:46 AM

How many of you have an employer who imposes a dress code? Or attended a school that had a dress code? Or have gone to public events with a dress code? It is not an uncommon thing.

It's almost humorous to see people lose their cool at the thought of a bishop doing the same.

Mormon Red Death · 01-18-2006, 02:12 AM

Don't you think its a little bit different? I mean I don't work for the bishop do I? Doing church service is voluntary isn't it? Just curious what is a public event that has a dress code? (black tie affair?).

I will be honest the only reason there is this policy is that they want their people to conform. If I had to manage a large sum of people I would want them to all act and dress the same as well. It makes it easier to administrate. I don't mean that in a negative way its just and efficient way to run things. Additionally, if one of your main goals of the church is missionary work then wanting your body of people to be as conservative as possible makes it easier to fulfill your goal

Look, all this crap about it being a sign of purity or "the uniform of the priesthood" is complete hogwash. We already have a dress code and it comes when you take your endowments out. what you put over the top of them when you go church shouldn't matter.

ute4ever · 01-18-2006, 03:00 AM

True going to church is voluntary. But how many people get this upset when their spouse tells them to change their shirt or put on some pants.

The_Tick · 01-18-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Look, all this crap about it being a sign of purity or "the uniform of the priesthood" is complete hogwash. We already have a dress code and it comes when you take your endowments out. what you put over the top of them when you go church shouldn't matter.

So if they mention in Conference that a White shirt is to be worn when administering the Sacrament should be considered "hogwash"?

non sequitur · 01-18-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Tick

So if they mention in Conference that a White shirt is to be worn when administering the Sacrament should be considered "hogwash"?

It would be hogwash, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to the counsel. If you believe in obeying your leaders, then you should probably go along with it, but that doesn't mean it's not dumb counsel. Let's face it, many of the things we are told to do in the Church are pretty silly. How goofy is it that an integral part of the religion is a prohibition on coffee? Come on, coffee? Is the CEO of Folgers one of Satan's minions? There is something about religion that does not like non-conformity and that likes unquestioned obedience. It has always been that way, and I imagine it will continue to be that way. If you want to be part of a religion, it's just something you have to learn to accept.

VAX77 · 01-18-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

You're right. Just like facial hair on Bishops or the Brethren. It's a matter of respect and reverence.

Respect and reverence? It's just a matter of looking clean cut more than anything else. It's almost a matter of brand recognition. I can't imagine what it has to do with respect and or reverence.

In one of my wards in Provo, I observed a 25 year old married man get turned down when he went up to pass the sacrament by another holier than thou guy who was going to bless the sacrament, saying the Lord would not approve of him allowing the married guy to pass because he had a goatee.....I know the guy was holier-than-thou because he was my home teaching comp.

I was pissed

DrumNFeather · 01-18-2006, 07:59 PM

I think the real question that needs to be posed for this issue is why? Why are you choosing to not wear a white shirt?

It seems to me (and I frequently am a non white shirt wearer) that many of us are probably numbered among those who don't want someone else telling us what to do...and this is especially a difficult task within the walls of the church...

For example: On my mission I always had an issue with the whole Junior/Senior companion idea, same with DL, ZL, and so on...I just didn't like the idea that in a voluntary church organization (such as the missionary program) certain people would be chosen as leaders and others would not be and thus, the Senior comp tells the junior comp what to do and so on it goes right down the line.

I find that most people, while respecting their bishop's authority, sometimes question his competency to do his job. This is not a blanket assumption of course, but I've talked to enough people about their local leaders to know that some are unimpressed and in some ways uninspired by their bishop.

The only reason I bring this up is...if the bishop, whom you consider a bit of a ninny, tells you to wear a white shirt, then of course you won't...because if you think he's stupid, his little personal do's and dont's aren't going to mean a hill of beans to you.

IMO and in my experience, the wearing of white shirts has become more of an act of defiance than an act of good fashion.

Rickomatic · 01-18-2006, 08:45 PM

I thought I could start wearing colored shirts, I was called to be the Ex. Sec. I changed to white and held that calling for awhile and after I was released, I kept wearing white. After about a year or so, I slipped in a few colored shirts again and wham, I was put into the High Priest group leadership. I am back in white and after a couple of years I am released and so now I wear my white shirt every week and the only calling I have is to home teach. I will keep wearing the white shirt so I don't stick out for some other calling they need filled.

01-18-2006, 02:12 AM	#34
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	Don't you think its a little bit different? I mean I don't work for the bishop do I? Doing church service is voluntary isn't it? Just curious what is a public event that has a dress code? (black tie affair?). I will be honest the only reason there is this policy is that they want their people to conform. If I had to manage a large sum of people I would want them to all act and dress the same as well. It makes it easier to administrate. I don't mean that in a negative way its just and efficient way to run things. Additionally, if one of your main goals of the church is missionary work then wanting your body of people to be as conservative as possible makes it easier to fulfill your goal Look, all this crap about it being a sign of purity or "the uniform of the priesthood" is complete hogwash. We already have a dress code and it comes when you take your endowments out. what you put over the top of them when you go church shouldn't matter. __________________ Its all about the suit

01-18-2006, 07:59 PM	#39
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	I think the real question that needs to be posed for this issue is why? Why are you choosing to not wear a white shirt? It seems to me (and I frequently am a non white shirt wearer) that many of us are probably numbered among those who don't want someone else telling us what to do...and this is especially a difficult task within the walls of the church... For example: On my mission I always had an issue with the whole Junior/Senior companion idea, same with DL, ZL, and so on...I just didn't like the idea that in a voluntary church organization (such as the missionary program) certain people would be chosen as leaders and others would not be and thus, the Senior comp tells the junior comp what to do and so on it goes right down the line. I find that most people, while respecting their bishop's authority, sometimes question his competency to do his job. This is not a blanket assumption of course, but I've talked to enough people about their local leaders to know that some are unimpressed and in some ways uninspired by their bishop. The only reason I bring this up is...if the bishop, whom you consider a bit of a ninny, tells you to wear a white shirt, then of course you won't...because if you think he's stupid, his little personal do's and dont's aren't going to mean a hill of beans to you. IMO and in my experience, the wearing of white shirts has become more of an act of defiance than an act of good fashion. __________________ "It's not like we played the school of the blind out there." - Brian Johnson.

01-18-2006, 08:45 PM	#40
Rickomatic Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Jordan UT Posts: 319	I thought I could start wearing colored shirts, I was called to be the Ex. Sec. I changed to white and held that calling for awhile and after I was released, I kept wearing white. After about a year or so, I slipped in a few colored shirts again and wham, I was put into the High Priest group leadership. I am back in white and after a couple of years I am released and so now I wear my white shirt every week and the only calling I have is to home teach. I will keep wearing the white shirt so I don't stick out for some other calling they need filled. __________________ "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

01-17-2006, 03:00 PM	#32
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	The Nazi analogy is overwrought, incendiary and just plain inaccurate. If you can't understand the logical disconnect between the two... :shock:

01-18-2006, 01:46 AM	#33
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	How many of you have an employer who imposes a dress code? Or attended a school that had a dress code? Or have gone to public events with a dress code? It is not an uncommon thing. It's almost humorous to see people lose their cool at the thought of a bishop doing the same.

01-18-2006, 03:00 AM	#35
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	True going to church is voluntary. But how many people get this upset when their spouse tells them to change their shirt or put on some pants.