02-27-2008, 08:52 PM | #31 | |||
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No one ever got someone to "embrace the Good" by shouting them down. Quote:
It is interesting that you want to see a divine organization run more and more by human standards. Your suggestions would arguably make it worse at what it does than better.
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02-27-2008, 08:55 PM | #32 | |
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
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I predict that women will get the priesthood for the same reason blacks got the priesthood. The Church will eventually be forced to do it for logistical reasons. If women had the priesthood, Church growth would be remarkable in places where low numbers of men limit its growth. Our baptisms in Russia plummeted because we couldn't teach women, and women were always lined up to hear the discussion and join the Church. |
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02-27-2008, 08:56 PM | #33 |
Demiurge
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Maybe I should pray to be an apostle. Who will join me? I want to make an end-run.
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02-27-2008, 09:00 PM | #34 | |
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The main problem I see with the extremely limited role of women in the church (and yes I do think it is extreme, in terms of the leadership input of men vs. women), is that we are not tapping the potential of the women, and the women themselves have untapped potential that will never come out because of lack of opportunity. But I could be wrong. I wonder if the tremendous demands placed on men in the church, in terms of expectations and volunteer service, drive many men away. The church is a kind of all-in or all-out institution. Casual male members are brow-beaten until they come either all-in or all-out, I am afraid. |
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02-27-2008, 09:01 PM | #35 |
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Requiem
If someone like Adam wanted to stay in the church, then my suggestion stands. If someone like Adam honestly felt inside that he would not be happy in it, then I would ask why bother spending so much time to 'fix' something that is someone like Adam will not personally be able to 'fix' and that he knows inside he will not be happy with anyway.
Mike - I knew I shouldn't have suggested the perfection of the church, as I knew there would be misunderstanding. My comment was that is is perfect in its imperfections. It is hard for me to adequately explain what I meant but recognizing that it certainly does have imperfections, and certainly not all is well in Zion, what I meant to get across is that the church can function in everyone's life to the magnified degree that everyone is willing to pour effort into it. It is there to help anyone become a spiritual giant if that person is willing to allow that to happen. I am not suggesting that administrative changes could not be made, etc.
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02-27-2008, 09:03 PM | #36 | |
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02-27-2008, 09:04 PM | #37 |
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FWIW, Dan, I felt where you were coming from. I have many of the same thoughts myself. I think this is a good place for people to do a bit of venting and testing of ideas that it is not "safe" to do in other venues, but I too have monitored at least what I perceive to be the emotional levels of some.
I think there are a great many here that are in the process of figuring out what the church means to them and how they fit into it after having gained a more mature understanding of it. As you say, it is a process. I am a big proponent of that struggle leading to a place within the church rather than without as I think you are. Anyway, I felt the compassion and empathy in what you said. Thanks for your thoughts. We can always use more examples in the church and around here of people who have fought the demons and stayed in. Its not the only path, but in my opinion it is the best one.
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02-27-2008, 09:04 PM | #38 | |
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02-27-2008, 09:05 PM | #39 | |
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02-27-2008, 09:06 PM | #40 |
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Mike, the church is an all-in proposition
Full salvation, IMO, cannot be obtained without first being willing to sacrifice all things. The church helps facilitate such focused devotion by its members. Though the members can be misguided at times, it really is an all-in decision. Those who are teetering on that decision or who are going back and forth are always stretched out to in the hope they will eventually come all-in.
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