Expectations

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Stick to Mormon bashing. You're better at it.

BYU SUCKS GODDAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by jay santos

We dominate you when it comes to recruiting base, fan base, attendance, facilities, history (except for when you go back to when they wore leather helmets), etc. That is what makes and sustains a program. You need to get lucky on a coaching hire outside, which you did, to find success outside of those factors.

But nothing is more sure to all observers that you guys are capped out at a level of success that is far below us.

All of this is just grasping at straws on your part. As for history, you are admitting that you that you can't include the entire series for your argument - only the Edwards era. That is beyond weak.

Attendance smack? Fan base smack? Nice try. Recruiting smack? If that's the case, then I hope it continues, as Utah has won 9 of the last 13. I don't even have to go back to leather helmets (or the Edwards era) to show proof that Utah has dominated BYU.

Your success is the reason the BCS exists. BYU was arguably the one team that didn't deserve the championship because of it's extremely weak (including Utah at the time) schedule.

Do we even need to bring bowl success into the equation? Let's do, just for fun. Utah has the best winning percentage of teams that have played at least 10 bowl games. BYU has the worst for teams having played in at least 10 bowl games.

Last I checked, winning is what matters. Utah has more overall wins, more bowl wins (in about half the appearances) and in the head to head series. And you honestly believe that BYU has a higer level of success?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Venkman

I don't think only the Edwards Era counts, but I don't think you should really put much stock in anything prior to the mid-50's or so, at least when it comes to the rivalry. Utah was a much larger school, a real University. BYU was a small school with few students and limited resources. A four-year Snow College, if you will.

You do make a rather good argument here, but if Jay is going to argue that BYU has had better success, why doesn't he talk about the years before or after Edwards?

My only point is that history always starts at the beginning, not an arbitrary point.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by JazzyUte

And yet even with all that success, your team still hasn't done jack shit since 2001. It must be nice knowing your team's best days happened when I wasn't A) alive and B) just born. BYU has nothing to hang its hat on when it comes to post-Edwards. Utah at least was something before Urban Meyer and seems to be something post-Urban Meyer as well.

Well, it's nice to see you can feel so good about yourselves beating a 1-AA team in name (NAU), and another 1-AA team in substance (USU).

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by JazzyUte

And yet even with all that success, your team still hasn't done jack shit since 2001. It must be nice knowing your team's best days happened when I wasn't A) alive and B) just born. BYU has nothing to hang its hat on when it comes to post-Edwards. Utah at least was something before Urban Meyer and seems to be something post-Urban Meyer as well.

"Seems?"

Now that is funny.

The reality is the Utah is not what it "seems" that Jazzy imagines it is and there is no way BYU can meet Jay's expectations.

Why can't fans just enjoy the games? Jazzy can't enjoy anything other than Utah "seeming" to be something post Urban, so he clearly ignores the football games as what occurs during those itsy bitsy events would cast aspersions on what it "seems" that he wants it to be.

Jay, I love guys like you that won't let standards drop. Without you fellas where would mankind be? Long live the standards holder upppers.

BYU lost to good team on Saturday. I could list a long list of reasons why I believe they did. But I tire of that, so I will list what I think will happen. I think BYU loses one more game this year and I do not think it will be either TCU or Utah. I also think BYU will either win the MWC outright or tie for the championship.

Now, I clearly have higher standards than Jazzy of doing something significant, or at least what would "seem" to be significant. But I think winning conference championships are noteworthy....but hey going 4-4 in the MWC is not what it "seems" to be.

On the other hand did anyone see the end of the Army-aTm game? I had my manhood ripped up through my throat twice in the same day, but I am good. I still "seem" to be a'ight.

BEAT NAVY!

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I think BYU loses one more game this year and I do not think it will be either TCU or Utah. I also think BYU will either win the MWC outright or tie for the championship.

Am I to understand that you think BYU will win on the road at both TCU and Utah? Or did I just read that wrong?

I believe BYU will be better this year than it has the last 3 or 4 years, but I ust don't know if the Cougars can get it done on the road against either TCU or Utah. Beck just hasn't shown that he has what it takes to get wins like this. And now with the OL that is gone for the season - not sure of his name - how much is that going to affect this team?

As for the Utes, I really don't know what to think. They got worked by UCLA and wins against NAU and USU really show nothing, despite both games being blow outs like they should have been. This weekend will tell a lot about how the Utes are going to be. A loss and I think they'll struggle. A win and they'll be headed in the right direction.

I'm just going to have fun sitting in RES watching the Utes play football.

Sorry about your Black Knights. I suppose you can take comfort in knowing that if it were for real, your alma mater's students would probably make aTm ROTC types their bitch without breaking a sweat, eh?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Am I to understand that you think BYU will win on the road at both TCU and Utah? Or did I just read that wrong?

I believe BYU will be better this year than it has the last 3 or 4 years, but I ust don't know if the Cougars can get it done on the road against either TCU or Utah. Beck just hasn't shown that he has what it takes to get wins like this. And now with the OL that is gone for the season - not sure of his name - how much is that going to affect this team?

As for the Utes, I really don't know what to think. They got worked by UCLA and wins against NAU and USU really show nothing, despite both games being blow outs like they should have been. This weekend will tell a lot about how the Utes are going to be. A loss and I think they'll struggle. A win and they'll be headed in the right direction.

I'm just going to have fun sitting in RES watching the Utes play football.

Sorry about your Black Knights. I suppose you can take comfort in knowing that if it were for real, your alma mater's students would probably make aTm ROTC types their bitch without breaking a sweat, eh?

Yup. I think it is a game of percentages and while John Beck is no Ty Detmer, he is good enough to win a couple of semi-big games. I think TCU has the speed of BC but will not have the power and BYU will establish the run against the Frogs. Going on the road to SLC is not insurmountable. I don't think beating NAU and USU is what it "seems" to be.

As for aTm, they were lucky.

[OhioBlue]

Since we're offering our expectations for the rest of the season, here are mine:

In conference play, our team is going to look very good. BC, Arizona, Tulsa--all had significant strengths that most MWC teams do not. And even though Ute fans hate the "if not for..." line of reasoning, this year it just happens to be true. BYU should be 3-0, and I'm still pained that they're not. I expect to see some players step up that have to the present been neturalized for the most part. eg Harline, Jacobson, Kehl (more of what we saw vs AZ), Dulan.

I expect to see BYU punishing teams with the run and out-physicalling them, a la 1996 when we had Jenkins/McKenzie.

I expect the game with TCU to be our last shot at winning a big one this season. Utah will be important, but won't be anywhere near as big a game for the simple fact that Utah will not be anywhere near the top 25 when we play them. I expect another war with TCU, and think that this is the one we finally win that provides at least some semblance of vindication for the two games that got away.

I expect that at least one team that shouldn't will give us fits. I'm calling it CSU.

I expect that Utah will come back down to earth when they play a real D-1 team again. Their weaknesses at LB (slooooow), inability to generate a pass rush, nobody stepping up at RB, and injuries all add up to way too many question marks. I expect that Ute fans will once again be quite uncomfortable about 2/3 of the way into the season, and that this time it's not going to take a magical turn at the end like it did last year. BYU wins easy unless our whole O-line goes down by then.

I expect many BYU fans who lack perspective to be all pissed even if we end up 9-3. I expect to hear more critiques of Beck, Anae, Bronco, and anyone/everyone else associated with BYU football. I think fans like this should be fans of a team like Duke, Utah State, or even Iowa State for a year. Then they might applaud our guys a little more frequently in between their armchair critiques.

And last but not least, I expect Goat to renege on his commitment to become a Ute fan.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

BYU should be 3-0....

There is a huge difference between "should be" and "is". Should be really doesn't matter, regardless the situation of injuries, etc.

I agree that the Utes will have a tough time repeating their last two games playing against better competition. I still don't see BYU beating Utah in SLC, though that's because I'm a Ute fan and just don't want to concede that it might happen and because as I stated, I really don't think Beck has what it takes to get it done.

[Archaea]

If the game is dependant upon Beck making a critical play, then I agree Utah will win. If it's a team game, with no critical last minute plays by Beck, then BYU has a chance.