04-03-2008, 03:50 PM | #31 | |
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You're second point is what I'm amazed that everyone seems to be overlooking. I'm finding all these people who are talking about voting for Obama, but who would NEVER vote for Clinton. You press them on it and they have no idea why, other than he's trendy and "shiny". This guy has the most liberal voting record in the senate. I don't have a problem with Calicoug voting for him as he obviously has liberal opinions. But Obama's got this huge voting block that have no idea why they're voting for him, and I think they'll get a rude awakening to find out that he's nothing new--it's standard Ted Kennedy liberalism. |
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04-03-2008, 03:58 PM | #32 | |
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To minimize the effect personal experience in the military has in one's understanding of the workings of said military, the effects of war on soldiers, and so on, is incredibly dishonest. This knowledge on the inner workings of the military cannot be underestimated in terms of National Defense. Furthermore, while the fact that my father was a retail-store manager for 30 years doesn't qualify me as being a credentialed economist, it certainly gives me some insight into the effects of minimum wages on the operation of a business. My degree in economics, however recent, certainly does give me those credentials. The items Tex listed are, to me, compelling reasons to trust McCain in terms of National Defense as POTUS. IMO, you're barking up the wrong tree here. Your best bet is the route Cali has taken. I find his arguments in this case to be far more compelling. Alternatively, pointing out the inherent fallacy in the original post would be the way I would go (specifically, that attacking someone using that person's support for an unpopular war isn't defensive in nature at all - it's an offensive tactic, and may well be effective in the anti-war community).
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04-03-2008, 04:04 PM | #33 | |
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"My days of not respecting you are certainly coming to a middle." -Malcolm Reynolds "It doesn't mean that if we lose a game or when we lose a game people won't then jump on and say the quest is over. Because they will. But they've missed the point." -Bronco Mendenhall on "The Quest" |
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04-03-2008, 04:15 PM | #34 | |
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The POTUS has very little, if any, contact with the military at the troop level (other than the aforementioned speeches and expensive motorcades). The POTUS stays in Washington, gets briefed by the Pentagon and his cabinet advisors, asks them what THEY think we should do, and then goes with it. Do you think the Pentagon presented GWB with a plan for invading Iraq and then Bush said...."no, I think we should flank from the left, not the right!" I have already taken the stance that neither resume (Obama nor McCain) truly qualifies them to do ANY of the things everyone is talking about....what knowledge do either of them have of running the nation's economy? What do they know about sealing our national borders? What inside information does either man have with regards to the state of the environment? These men spend the majority of their lives in meetings and giving speeches. Everything they know is largely fed to them by someone else...they dont even write their own speeches, for cying out loud. The only intellectual dishonesty being perpetrated here is the notion that one stuffed shirt "lacks serious credentials," while the other stuffed shirt has them. The notion that McCain is a credible source for national defense is almost laughable. Didnt he basically finish dead last at the Naval Academy? He basically almost flunked out of school....the very place many here are proporting that he received credible training to lead up our national security efforts. The critique that Obama has no specific plan for Iraq is fair. I get it. So what is the specific plan coming from McCain? one plan is to leave.....it is criticized for not being specific enough. The other plan simply seems to be to stay...with no real ability to provide an accurate timeline or details. Why is one plan more credible than the other. The real issue is not to determine which person is the most "qualified." It should be to determine which person assembles the strongest overall team. Mitt was allegedly the most qualified candidate...the brilliant strategist....yet he failed to run an effective campaign and failed to focus on key strengths....so much for his "gravitas" and "qualifications" as someone who can anticipate problems and adapt to them.
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04-03-2008, 04:22 PM | #35 | |
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I think you will quickly find that the "experience" factor you so commonly allude to isn't going to help McCain out at all. Experience is something we look to as a predictor. It isn't a guarantee that anyone will be either good or bad at another job, particularly when that other job is so far more involved than anything any candidate is currently experienced in. In addition to experience as a predictor, people look to statements made by candidates to determine what they will do, as well as votes on certain issues in the past (where applicable). McCain has the unfortunate reality, politically, of being on the wrong side of the debate on whether to remain in Iraq or withdraw. The war is exceptionally unpopular, and people want to get out. McCain has no interest in getting out, and he certainly can't define for the American people how long we need to stay or what needs to be accomplished before we get out (which is what Obama is highlighting with McCain's 100 year comment- McCain doesn't have a clue what he is committing to other than an open-ended commitment). If you think his 100 year comment hurts Obama because Obama repeats it, I think you don't understand American politics. You also clearly don't understand the reasoning behind Obama's use of the quote, particularly given your very odd insistence that it must mean, it MUST, that Obama doesn't understand foreign policy. How you even arrive at that conclusion is beyond me. Last edited by Cali Coug; 04-03-2008 at 04:24 PM. |
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04-03-2008, 04:24 PM | #36 | |
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Being President is easy! Just do what you're told!
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04-03-2008, 04:30 PM | #37 | |
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Being a President isnt easy--it is a lot work....travel, speeches, motorcades, debriefings, rinse, repeat. But it doesnt require any personal specialities in the areas of economics, military, environment, education, etc.. On the other hand, being Tex seem to be easy. Lob out partisan rhetoric and then hide behind empty platitudes when asked for specifics. Being a good president is likely the hardest job in the world, I would guess.
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04-03-2008, 04:38 PM | #38 | ||||
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Obama has neither of these advantages. Quote:
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
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04-03-2008, 04:39 PM | #39 | ||
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
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04-03-2008, 04:54 PM | #40 | |
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Examples: "McCain was a key component in developing our strategy for the Iraq Invasion." or "McCain was instrumental in drafting legislature in AZ that wound up decreasing illegal immigration by X percent." I can see those are legitimate and compelling credentials. You have definitely provided generic examples, though....McCain finished almost dead last in his class at the Naval Academy, McCain's relatives were soldiers, McCain is on an oversight committee that monitors military pensions, etc.. One thing you havent addressed is whether McCain played a lot of Stratego as a kid. Maybe that also qualifies him because he has an innate ability to guess whether the opposing piece is a bomb or higher ranking officer.
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