12-29-2005, 09:54 PM | #31 | ||
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That said, I submit that ultimately, when everything is said and done, and the facts of all things made known to all, we will recognize that the darkest moments of church history were caused by disobedience, not obedience, to the prophet. |
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12-29-2005, 10:26 PM | #32 | |
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im thinking of the darkest moment to date in church history: lying about polygamy/polyandry post manifesto polygamy kirkland bank problems mountain meadows massacre blacks and the priesthood salamander letter fiasco (ive said in past posts i think the churchs warts quite small and infrequent considering the large organization and rapid growth its experienced) in every single one of these circumstances, the leadership of the church has been shrouded in levels of deceit, mistrust of the general membership, and in-quorum disagreement. i think the general membership of the church a very able and capable body of people, at times, to serve as a check and balance to the leadership. thats why i think brigham was so adamant about members questioning what is presented to them by the leaders. sometimes they are wrong. do i think etb is wrong in his opinions on communism? why yes i do. i think he has little credibility when it comes to talking about things that deal directly with political scholarship. i think the principle of personal stewardship and making ourselves personal churches within the larger body of christ is what paul was teaching here..... Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. as we perfect ourselves and are prophets unto our families we find out where we fit into the larger body of christ. i think the tent of the church is huge and it is up to us to find out where we fit under that tent. |
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12-29-2005, 10:39 PM | #33 | ||
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12-29-2005, 11:37 PM | #34 | |
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12-30-2005, 04:07 AM | #35 |
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Late thoughts from SteelBlue:
-I agree that the LOC resembles socialism more than it does capitalism. The key to me is who is in charge and who is participating. This has already been expressed very well in this thread. Socialism would drive me crazy. I think I could try and live the LOC if I believed that everyone else was trying their best as well. But I'll be honest with you, I'd much rather I was never asked to do so. I'd much rather retire and spend my 401k on myself. :wink: -ETB the apostle definitely said things re: politics that were strictly his opinion. I do not consider much of what he said about politics to have been inspired. I will say that I agree with him re: Communism being a worthless system. However, I do not think that Ike was a communist plant in a plan to subjugate the American people to Communism. I don't think the civil rights movement was part of a communist plot. I don't think George Wallace would have been a good president. My testimony of prophets was strengthened after studying a little bit about ETB in the David O. McKay book. Even though he had those strong political leanings that he was so vocal about, when he took on the mantle of President/Prophet he completely changed. He championed the book of Mormon and I believe, as most of you do, that he was a prophet of the Lord and telling us what the Lord wanted us to hear. |
12-30-2005, 04:39 AM | #36 | |
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I think 99% of the time we would do well to follow our leaders with perfect exactness, but there are certain rare occasions when, because our leaders are fallible humans, we might be better off taking an alternative route. |
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01-04-2006, 03:32 PM | #37 |
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Keep in mind it's about implementation
The United Order was an IMPLEMENTATION of the Law of Consecration. There is no doctrine anywhere that I know of that says we will be living the United Order again.
Two thngs are clear: 1. Endowed members are already under covenant to live the Law of Consecration. Some do, some do not. There are many example given above of both. However, to make judgments on what that means is up to the Lord. For example, on my mission there was member who was very wealthy physician. He lived in a million dollar home .... but he also had offerred to pay the way to BYU for any kid in the ward who got in but could not afford it. That's right, a full ride given by an individual. Was he living the law of consecration or not? Beats me. But I'd guess better than some. 2. Someday (maybe not until the milennium), there will be another implementation of the Law of Consecration but we don't know what it will be like. |
01-04-2006, 07:44 PM | #38 | |
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Re: Keep in mind it's about implementation
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01-10-2006, 08:11 PM | #39 |
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I just had a thought. What if the way we generally look at the law of consecration is wrong? Generally you see the implementation of the law to be "The United Order". This is assumed to be the implementation used with the Nephites, and people of Enoch (or one like it). What if there implementation was totally different. For example, what if there implementation was complete unfettered capitalism? Where the work and ideas of a man is the distributor of wealth not a goverment or a church org. The tenets of capitalism are such that it rewards people who work the hard. Doesn't a perfect system from God seem to be one in which people are rewarded for the work they produce? Couldn't consecrating all your might mind and strength to the building of kingdom mean do your best to produce and sell a product on how the market dictates? I guess I could go on for days about the virtues of capitalism. But one thing is for sure its the fairest system out there.
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01-11-2006, 12:13 AM | #40 | |
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