Those who discuss past transgressions - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Surfah · 06-09-2006, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

On the flip side if she were to somehow find out about your past after marriage, she could legitimately complain about it. I don't see an upside to dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to her reasons for wanting to know. I maintain that there are several legitimate reasons for a woman to ask.

I just don't see a good reason for the potential spouse to ask. What difference does it make? None. As long as the sin had been repented of properly it doesn't impact his salvation nor hers. And if she wants to know to judge my character, well then she's not someone I would want to marry because my character is manifest by my actions today, not something silly I did in high school. Now, before you point out the irony in that statement I understand that my past choices and decisions ultimately have shaped and determined my character. The point is, nobody should have to know the transgression to know that one has a testimony and reverence for the atonement. Honesty is not the best policy. Never has been, never will be.

Now I say that with some firmness, however, each situation is different. I don't think one should have to disclose fornication IMO. However, if there was a byproduct of the fornication like a child or an STD, then yes there should be some dialogue concerning that person's history. That said, the onus should be on the person to divulge that information willingly to protect the other individual not something that should be asked of him.

SteelBlue · 06-09-2006, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

I just don't see a good reason for the potential spouse to ask. What difference does it make? None. As long as the sin had been repented of properly it doesn't impact his salvation nor hers. And if she wants to know to judge my character, well then she's not someone I would want to marry because my character is manifest by my actions today, not something silly I did in high school. Now, before you point out the irony in that statement I understand that my past choices and decisions ultimately have shaped and determined my character. The point is, nobody should have to know the transgression to know that one has a testimony and reverence for the atonement. Honesty is not the best policy. Never has been, never will be.

We'll have to agree to disagree, (Ron Burgundy has made it impossible for me to use that phrase without laughing). I believe there are legitimate reasons for a woman wanting to know about past behavior. You and others here do not and I can understand your position even though I don't agree.

Now, what does San Diego mean is Spanish?

The_Tick · 06-09-2006, 05:17 AM

Have you ever had sex before?

That is a yes or no question.

If the answer is yes, but you choose to say no because you have repented of it then you are telling a lie.

I met my wife and married her knowing about her past. Hard to hide the answer to that question when you are holding a baby.

Hypothetical Situation:

As a guy you have been saving yourself for your wedding night. You have asked you wife if she has had sex before and she says no. (she has gone through the repentance process, that is why she gives you that answer) You get there to your wedding night and find out that she has.

What do you say then?

Surfah · 06-09-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Tick

Hypothetical Situation:

As a guy you have been saving yourself for your wedding night. You have asked you wife if she has had sex before and she says no. (she has gone through the repentance process, that is why she gives you that answer) You get there to your wedding night and find out that she has.

What do you say then?

Well if the guy had never had sex, how would he know otherwise?

Whether it's a lie or not if you have repented of a sin is an exercise in semantics. That's not what I am contesting here. I am questioning the validity of reasons as to why one would need to know the other's past indiscretions. In fact the whole lie or not a lie conundrum would never even be approached if one didn't ask.

If one can argue that discussing PT's with friends is trifling with the atonement, can't the same be applied to someone who wants to know to satisfy some urge and asks someone what PT's they have committed too?

bYuPride · 06-09-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

Well if the guy had never had sex, how would he know otherwise?

Whether it's a lie or not if you have repented of a sin is an exercise in semantics. That's not what I am contesting here. I am questioning the validity of reasons as to why one would need to know the other's past indiscretions. In fact the whole lie or not a lie conundrum would never even be approached if one didn't ask.

If one can argue that discussing PT's with friends is trifling with the atonement, can't the same be applied to someone who wants to know to satisfy some urge and asks someone what PT's they have committed too?

i can see how there might be a gray area on disclosing fornication.. honesty is always the best policy, but to each his own.

let's talk about pornography. say a young girl gets married to a guy who has had a serious past problem with porn. this young man is totally clean now, but many many people have said that a problem like porn addiction will haunt this young man for a long time, perhaps the rest of his time here in mortality. is that important to disclose to the fiancee? perhaps so the fiancee can help avoid future temptation?

ute4ever · 06-09-2006, 10:47 PM

Some of you know I was briefly married to a Zoobie. I met her one week after my mission, was frequently told by my file leaders to make marriage my highest priority, and believing I was doing the right thing, rushed into a bad situation.

A few months into it, her mother told me, "She has a history of psychological issues that we didn't tell you about."

As Adam Sandler says in The Wedding Singer, "You could have brought that to my attention YESTERDAY!!!!"

That is something that should have been disclosed, because such is an ongoing issue.

But now I wonder, how different is a past transgression from a current problem? If a person had sex, a criminal record, or an addiction, and supposedly has repented.....isn't it something that could surface again?

Then again, just because a person is 30 and has never tried alcohol, doesn't mean they never will.

Archaea · 06-09-2006, 11:08 PM

Somebody stated no one rule should apply to all situations. This discussion illustrates the need for that.

Sins should only be disclosed after careful consideration.

Nonsins, but terrible conditions, should be disclosed. You shouldn't conceal diseases or conditions.

Wow, some have it bad.

RockyBalboa · 06-09-2006, 11:45 PM

There's no right way to justify lying to your spouse.

I've read some pretty deceptive and irrational explanations on here about how and why someone should.

That's a marriage I'm glad I'm not a part of.

bYuPride · 06-09-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Some of you know I was briefly married to a Zoobie. I met her one week after my mission, was frequently told by my file leaders to make marriage my highest priority, and believing I was doing the right thing, rushed into a bad situation.

A few months into it, her mother told me, "She has a history of psychological issues that we didn't tell you about."

As Adam Sandler says in The Wedding Singer, "You could have brought that to my attention YESTERDAY!!!!"

That is something that should have been disclosed, because such is an ongoing issue.

But now I wonder, how different is a past transgression from a current problem? If a person had sex, a criminal record, or an addiction, and supposedly has repented.....isn't it something that could surface again?

Then again, just because a person is 30 and has never tried alcohol, doesn't mean they never will.

wow...

was it pertinent to the story to mention she was a BYU girl?

bluegoose · 06-10-2006, 12:20 AM

I can't believe this discussion is going on. Seriously, if you've had sex before marriage, there is absolutely no way that you shouldn't disclose that fact to her prior to marriage, especially if she asks. Full repentance and forgiveness has nothing to do with it. Sure, the Lord will forgive and forget, but that does not change the fact that it occured. As someone who is about to commit her life to you, she has the right to know. It may or may not change her decision to pursue the relationship - that is up to her. But you can't make that decision for her.

06-09-2006, 05:17 AM	#33
The_Tick Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 626	Have you ever had sex before? That is a yes or no question. If the answer is yes, but you choose to say no because you have repented of it then you are telling a lie. I met my wife and married her knowing about her past. Hard to hide the answer to that question when you are holding a baby. Hypothetical Situation: As a guy you have been saving yourself for your wedding night. You have asked you wife if she has had sex before and she says no. (she has gone through the repentance process, that is why she gives you that answer) You get there to your wedding night and find out that she has. What do you say then? __________________ Spooooooon

06-09-2006, 10:47 PM	#36
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Some of you know I was briefly married to a Zoobie. I met her one week after my mission, was frequently told by my file leaders to make marriage my highest priority, and believing I was doing the right thing, rushed into a bad situation. A few months into it, her mother told me, "She has a history of psychological issues that we didn't tell you about." As Adam Sandler says in The Wedding Singer, "You could have brought that to my attention YESTERDAY!!!!" That is something that should have been disclosed, because such is an ongoing issue. But now I wonder, how different is a past transgression from a current problem? If a person had sex, a criminal record, or an addiction, and supposedly has repented.....isn't it something that could surface again? Then again, just because a person is 30 and has never tried alcohol, doesn't mean they never will. Last edited by ute4ever; 06-09-2006 at 11:01 PM.

06-09-2006, 11:08 PM	#37
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Somebody stated no one rule should apply to all situations. This discussion illustrates the need for that. Sins should only be disclosed after careful consideration. Nonsins, but terrible conditions, should be disclosed. You shouldn't conceal diseases or conditions. Wow, some have it bad. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

06-09-2006, 11:45 PM	#38
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	There's no right way to justify lying to your spouse. I've read some pretty deceptive and irrational explanations on here about how and why someone should. That's a marriage I'm glad I'm not a part of. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.

06-10-2006, 12:20 AM	#40
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	I can't believe this discussion is going on. Seriously, if you've had sex before marriage, there is absolutely no way that you shouldn't disclose that fact to her prior to marriage, especially if she asks. Full repentance and forgiveness has nothing to do with it. Sure, the Lord will forgive and forget, but that does not change the fact that it occured. As someone who is about to commit her life to you, she has the right to know. It may or may not change her decision to pursue the relationship - that is up to her. But you can't make that decision for her.