04-26-2007, 05:38 PM | #31 | |
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04-26-2007, 05:41 PM | #32 | |
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I am not sure I have ever seen a more arrogant, racist or misguided statement on this board. You should be embarrassed. Moreover, if you retreat behind the "I never use TIC" smokescreen, you should still apologize.
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04-26-2007, 05:43 PM | #33 | |
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We're dealing with an extremely violent minority here. They are large enough of a minority, true, that they could potentially destabilize the gov't were they left to their own vices. But the high turnout in every election Iraq has held so far sort of blows away the "imposition of values" argument. |
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04-26-2007, 05:44 PM | #34 | |
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I have mixed emotions about being the world's police force. If we (the USA) don't help, nobody will and we're vilified for not helping. If we help, we're vilified as pushing our will on the rest of the world.
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"The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB. |
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04-26-2007, 05:56 PM | #35 |
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No TIC, and I don't shrink or apologize from what I said. I'm sorry not to share your paternalistic, noble savage view of things. Do you deny that the developments which I referenced were better for the world? You can't possibly sit enjoying the privileges you enjoy and not feel that way. I know you are not so self-satisfied in your abstract notions of things that you are blind to that hard fact. Do you despise your liberties and material comforts that your fathers won for you? Have you ever read about the kind of lives that were led in Gaul and in North America before Ceasar and the Pilgrims came, the suffering, what the original inhabitants did to one another, etc.? It's a sad fact that civilization and liberty has itself left in its wake much bloodshed and suffering. I don't know why a loving God would creat such a world; it's the ultimate mystery. This is not an untenable ground upon which one could found an atheistic view of the world, and is the one most often cited. But what was there before civilizatoin arrived was not the Eden-like fantasy that you pretend existed in your self-righteous indignation. I think you know better.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 04-26-2007 at 06:01 PM. |
04-26-2007, 06:15 PM | #36 | |
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04-26-2007, 06:16 PM | #37 | |
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Holding a vote is probably the least important part of democracy. It is what comes after, when all parties show respect for the outcome of the vote, when people support parties based upon issues rather than identity, and when the rule of law follows from elections. Iraq is a nominal democracy, i.e. they hold votes. This is a positive first step. But it is a small step when there is chaos going on in the streets. Furthermore, the rise of sectarian parties does not bode well for embracing of pluralist democracy or even for a workable power sharing arrangement. I hesitate to call the elections, mere window dressing, because I think it is disrepectful of the Iraqis. However, until the security situation improves dramatically, that is what they are. |
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04-26-2007, 06:24 PM | #38 | |
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Beyond that, I'll wait and see how much deeper you dig yourself in before saying anyting further.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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04-26-2007, 06:35 PM | #39 | |
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Your generosity is remarkable. And the eden-like fantasy? Your frequent use of false dichotomies is, as always, evident here. One not sharing your observation is not thoughtful. Of course, how else could it be? Those damn aborigines in North America were very fortunate to be rescued from their inferior and brutal cultures. Your burden must be heavy indeed, SU.
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04-26-2007, 06:46 PM | #40 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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