Prop 8 and passive-aggressiveness

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

"Damaged children should get the damaged parents." That's kind of what you are saying.

I wouldn't say the two sets of dads I'm aware of are damaged, but since I'd favor a heterosexual couple over a gay couple, I guess I see where you'd reach that conclusion. Do you believe a baby would be just as well off with a gay couple as with a straight one (again, assuming all other factors are equal)? I'm open to the argument, but as I have no scientific evidence to support my position, I'm going with my gut here.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

then why are members against gays adopting? Because they are the kind of sinner who should be shunned. There are two kinds of sinners in the church--the kind that is ok, and the kind that is Satan. Gays are Satan.

I see what you mean. You are saying that many in the church oppose homosexual adoption because they believe that this is a sin which it is not acceptable to expose a child to while there are other sins that it is acceptable to expose a child to.

Where you see "hate" of gays, what I mostly see is the incredibly powerful taboo in our culture and faith against sexual sin. I don't think most LDS would be anxious to see children go to a home where other sexual sins, such as adultery, were not only happening but were going to be taught as the norm.

I don't actually think that is the ideal situation for a child either, but I do think and have said many times before that no child should be denied the opportunity to be raised by people who want and love it (as opposed to the state or foster care) unless they are going to be abused somehow. I can see where some LDS could see raising a child to believe homosexuality is normal as being abusive, but I stop well short of there.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I see what you mean. You are saying that many in the church oppose homosexual adoption because they believe that this is a sin which it is not acceptable to expose a child to while there are other sins that it is acceptable to expose a child to.

Where you see "hate" of gays, what I mostly see is the incredibly powerful taboo in our culture and faith against sexual sin. I don't think most LDS would be anxious to see children go to a home where other sexual sins, such as adultery, were not only happening but were going to be taught as the norm.

I don't actually think that is the ideal situation for a child either, but I do think and have said many times before that no child should be denied the opportunity to be raised by people who want and love it (as opposed to the state or foster care) unless they are going to be abused somehow. I can see where some LDS could see raising a child to believe homosexuality is normal as being abusive, but I stop well short of there.

is that something that is asked in the adoption process? "How much, if any, adultery is going on here?"

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

is that something that is asked in the adoption process? "How much, if any, adultery is going on here?"

Ever heard of a home study?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Ever heard of a home study?

Yes. Do they ask about adultery?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Yes. Do they ask about adultery?

I don't think they ask the question point blank, but they are quite ... thorough, for lack of a better word. Trust me, the status and stability of the marital relationship is of paramount importance.

Here's a sample of one questionnaire:

http://holdingpattern.typepad.com/in...mestudy_q.html

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't think they ask the question point blank, but they are quite ... thorough, for lack of a better word. Trust me, the status and stability of the marital relationship is of paramount importance.

Here's a sample of one questionnaire:

http://holdingpattern.typepad.com/in...mestudy_q.html

I sped-read the list, and didn't see an applicable question.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I sped-read the list, and didn't see an applicable question.

I have to think that a couple, any couple, would be asked how their relationship is. That is, do you fight, is there ever violence, etc. I assume that if someone were to say, well we have an open relationship where we have multiple and changing sexual partners coming in and out of the house and believe, and would teach our adopted children, that this is one of many alternative lifestyles available to them, it would raise a red flag. That is the analogy, I think, because that would be a situation where adultery was being openly practiced and taught as normal.

I would have grave concerns about a child being put in a home where that was the case unless there were not other options available. To answer your question whether they ask that directly, I have no clue. But I would be surprised to learn that any couple is not asked directly and fairly in depth about the health of their own relationship.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I have to think that a couple, any couple, would be asked how their relationship is. That is, do you fight, is there ever violence, etc. I assume that if someone were to say, well we have an open relationship where we have multiple and changing sexual partners coming in and out of the house and believe, and would teach our adopted children, that this is one of many alternative lifestyles available to them, it would raise a red flag. That is the analogy, I think, because that would be a situation where adultery was being openly practiced and taught as normal.

I would have grave concerns about a child being put in a home where that was the case unless there were not other options available. To answer your question whether they ask that directly, I have no clue. But I would be surprised to learn that any couple is not asked directly and fairly in depth about the health of their own relationship.

It's not very difficult. "How many sexual partners has each of you had in the past 2 years?"

It seems that they choose not to ask this kind of question.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It's not very difficult. "How many sexual partners has each of you had in the past 2 years?"

It seems that they choose not to ask this kind of question.

As Dan points out, the analogy is poor because adultery is not a behavior that society is trying normalize in the same way as homosexuality. Clearly, the health of the marital relationship is important--perhaps the most important thing--to the group conducting the home study.

I don't know if should be surprised or not that your "speed reading" didn't catch that.