To be a true classicist, which languages does one need to master?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The famous book that tries to do this is "The Rise of the West" by William H. McNeil.

I'm surprised I haven't read it, but the reviews make it sound interesting. I'm not certain I buy into the thesis of the Sumerian expansion of culture through subsequent invasions. One, the Shang Bronze Age would suggest of a separate rise in culture, independent of invasions out of Mesopotamia.

I actually believe, without any scholarship to back it up, that cultures can rise up independently, and that Chines culture mostly did, apart from some influences from Mongolian culture. Chinese influenced Japanese culture historically as well as the other neighbors.

I haven't reviewed the subcontinent very wll, so my knowledge is less than most of Aryan Invasion Hypothesis, which I gather is probably no longer in vogue.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I'm surprised I haven't read it, but the reviews make it sound interesting. I'm not certain I buy into the thesis of the Sumerian expansion of culture through subsequent invasions. One, the Shang Bronze Age would suggest of a separate rise in culture, independent of invasions out of Mesopotamia.

I actually believe, without any scholarship to back it up, that cultures can rise up independently, and that Chines culture mostly did, apart from some influences from Mongolian culture. Chinese influenced Japanese culture historically as well as the other neighbors.

I haven't reviewed the subcontinent very wll, so my knowledge is less than most of Aryan Invasion Hypothesis, which I gather is probably no longer in vogue.

It's a controversial book. Also a tough read.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

TB, it just comes down to the difference between the study of ancient history, in which, certainly knowledge of Mandarin et al. would be relevant; and he study of Classics, in which there is a specific subset of ancient history involved. It's just a different discipline.

There may be a very few Classics scholars that (due to their research emphasis) need to reference primary texts in ancient Eastern languages, but certainly not many.

Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: clas·si·cal
Pronunciation: 'kla-si-k&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin classicus
1 : STANDARD, CLASSIC
2 a : of or relating to the ancient Greek and Roman world and especially to its literature, art, architecture, or ideals <classical civilization> b : versed in the classics <a classical scholar>

I am certainly not a classicist as it were by any stretch or even a real history buff, but having spent a fair ammount of time studying art I am curious about the distinction made above.

What about the notion that the orient is a european invention? And what of hegimonic ideas that there is a dinstinction to be made between of ancient Greece and Rome verses ancient china?

I just don't see how someone could truly claim to be a classicists if he only studies Greek and Roman languages etc.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I am certainly not a classicist as it were by any stretch or even a real history buff, but having spent a fair ammount of time studying art I am curious about the distinction made above.

What about the notion that the orient is a european invention? And what of hegimonic ideas that there is a dinstinction to be made between of ancient Greece and Rome verses ancient china?

I just don't see how someone could truly claim to be a classicists if he only studies Greek and Roman languages etc.

These are discredited Marxist notions. If you think this way you should move to Seattle and you'll be happy.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

These are discredited Marxist notions. If you think this way you should move to Seattle and you'll be happy.

Discredited? I think many Marxist ideas are quite valid, for the simple fact they cannot only be credited to Marxist ideology.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Discredited? I think many Marxist ideas are quite valid, for the simple fact they cannot only be credited to Marxist ideology.

By the way since when has racism been irradicated from academic scholarship?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I am certainly not a classicist as it were by any stretch or even a real history buff, but having spent a fair ammount of time studying art I am curious about the distinction made above.

What about the notion that the orient is a european invention? And what of hegimonic ideas that there is a dinstinction to be made between of ancient Greece and Rome verses ancient china?

I just don't see how someone could truly claim to be a classicists if he only studies Greek and Roman languages etc.

Seriously, the ideas to which you allude have come under increasing and credible attack, not only because of the hard lessons of developing events in our times but also an excellent counteroffensive among scholars. Here is the latest and perhaps most complete and admired example:

http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Know...5284580&sr=1-3

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

By the way since when has racism been irradicated from academic scholarship?

Not sure what this means.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Not sure what this means.

Isn't a major motivation for the distinction between western and non western history racism?

As I read and listened to multiple lectures about orientalism I found myself asking aloud ... Does the eastern student make the same distinctions as the western student? Does he/she consider himself a classicist and giggle at the thought of those westerners who beleive they are in fact classicists?

These are very valid questions IMO

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Discredited? I think many Marxist ideas are quite valid, for the simple fact they cannot only be credited to Marxist ideology.

Marx was a fool...So was webber