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fusnik11 · 08-11-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I thought you were into science?

I don't believe in God, I believe in science!

SeattleUte · 08-11-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusnik11

I don't believe in God, I believe in science!

LOL. Good one.

Actually, I do believe in karma, or more broadly, unversal justice. And I'm a libertarian, which makes me especially believe people should be held personaly accountable for bad acts.

Archaea · 08-11-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

LOL. Good one.

Actually, I do believe in karma, or more broadly, unversal justice. And I'm a libertarian, which makes me especially believe people should be held personaly accountable for bad acts.

Without meaning to affront, what the hell is karma and universal justice?

I'm familiar, at least superficially with the concepts as the Buddhists define them. But it makes no sense for a man of science who has sworn off faith to believe in something cosmic such as "karma" or "universal justice". Something cosmic unknowable that comes around to bad people.

Either there's a divine being which you deny or there's nothing and justice will never be. In the scientific world of nothingness, nothing matters, for you carve out your own swath in life and are ultimately swallowed up, forgotten, never having existed.

It seems logically incosistent.

non sequitur · 08-11-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Without meaning to affront, what the hell is karma and universal justice?

I'm familiar, at least superficially with the concepts as the Buddhists define them. But it makes no sense for a man of science who has sworn off faith to believe in something cosmic such as "karma" or "universal justice". Something cosmic unknowable that comes around to bad people.

Either there's a divine being which you deny or there's nothing and justice will never be. In the scientific world of nothingness, nothing matters, for you carve out your own swath in life and are ultimately swallowed up, forgotten, never having existed.

It seems logically incosistent.

Who says karma isn't rooted in science? People who do good things and treat other people well will more likely than not be in a position to be rewarded by the good works of others. Conversely, people who constantly shit on other people are probably not going to be blessed as frequently by the good will of others. Karma isn't really based in the supernatural; it's basic common sense.

Archaea · 08-11-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Who says karma isn't rooted in science? People who do good things and treat other people well will more likely than not be in a position to be rewarded by the good works of others. Conversely, people who constantly shit on other people are probably not going to be blessed as frequently by the good will of others. Karma isn't really based in the supernatural; it's basic common sense.

What is the cause and effect?

If you mean socially? But social justice? I don't beliee in it. Otherwise the Middle East would have resolved itself after these many centuries. There is no empirical evidence of social justice.

non sequitur · 08-11-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

What is the cause and effect?

If you mean socially? But social justice? I don't beliee in it. Otherwise the Middle East would have resolved itself after these many centuries. There is no empirical evidence of social justice.

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't seen any research. All I have to go by is anecdotal evidence. For example, Every job I've ever received has been as the result of knowing someone in a position of influence. I presume that people wouldn't have helped me land those jobs if they thought I was an asshole (which doesn't necessarily mean I'm not an asshole). I don't think it's a stretch to think that people who treat other people decently will be treated decently in return.

Archaea · 08-11-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't seen any research. All I have to go by is anecdotal evidence. For example, Every job I've ever received has been as the result of knowing someone in a position of influence. I presume that people wouldn't have helped me land those jobs if they thought I was an asshole (which doesn't necessarily mean I'm not an asshole). I don't think it's a stretch to think that people who treat other people decently will be treated decently in return.

That's not karma.

People reward people they like. If you're likeable or perceived as competetent, you will be found useful. That's why we can actually comport ourselves they way we discourse here. Nobody would be found likeable.

What you describe is more of a social currency engendered by good will, which as you know is a business concept which you can even book and write off on your accounting books. It's an acceptable intangible. But it's not the traditional notion of karma, which is basically, if you do good, somehow it will redound to you by virtue of good vibrations reverberating through the cosmos.

SeattleUte · 08-11-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I'm not a scientist, and I haven't seen any research. All I have to go by is anecdotal evidence. For example, Every job I've ever received has been as the result of knowing someone in a position of influence. I presume that people wouldn't have helped me land those jobs if they thought I was an asshole (which doesn't necessarily mean I'm not an asshole). I don't think it's a stretch to think that people who treat other people decently will be treated decently in return.

You're right. As the old saying goes, "you make your own karma." Beats me why this should cause Archea such affront. As for universal justice, it may take time, but I firmly believe you see it play itself out over the long arc of history over and over again.

If that's my faith, so be it. I don't know why Archea is saying things have always to be logical and grounded in empirical fact. He should be the last one to take such a rigid position

Archaea · 08-11-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You're right. As the old saying goes, "you make your own karma." Beats me why this should cause Archea such affront. As for universal justice, it may take time, but I firmly believe you see it play itself out over the long arc of history over and over again.

If that's my faith, so be it. I don't know why Archea is saying things have always to be logical and grounded in empirical fact. He should be the last one to take such a rigid position

If you reject Deity, that is the only logical alternative, matters based on empirical fact. Faith in anything else is illogical.

Where has justice worked itself over the Middle East? There is no eternal justice and if it exist, it exists in the next realm.

RockyBalboa · 08-11-2006, 08:33 PM

Maybe some people view Karma and luck as the same things.

Whether they be good or bad.

Earl taught me that.

08-11-2006, 08:33 PM	#30
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	Maybe some people view Karma and luck as the same things. Whether they be good or bad. Earl taught me that. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.