Bye bye Chris Cannon

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

IPU, so what does that mean?

Are you inferring from this that there was a problem with Church members physically abusing immigrants or otherwise acting "without compassion" towards them? What kind of behavior was the Church proscribing when they admonished us to act with compassion towards them? And why specify "illegals?" In the literal sense, we are already asked to have compassion towards everyone, so why this specific public reminder to politicos and church members to have "compassion" towards illegals?

What other possible interpretation is there other than the Church telling everyone to chill out about deporting everyone?

I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

I'm saying that the Church was advising to not just round up the illegals and send them back, but to consider the consequences - possibly how it could break up families.

Cannon was about wiping the slate clean and starting over. Just like the last time.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

IPU, the Church totally ignores it. You live in Utah, so you probably are not familiar with Spanish branches that are basically populated with illegals. The Church calls illegals to serve in callings...even to be branch Presidents.

I'm aware of the Spanish Branches. I'm not aware that any of the good people in the Spanish Branches that I know personally are illegal.

[MikeWaters]

I agree with Adam, that the church's actions is not consistent with believing that illegal immigration is actually breaking a law that members should respect.

The church has asked for compassion. But let's read the tea leaves--the church has asked for nothing specific, whereas with the gay issue, they have been much more specific.

This sends the signal that the church wants compassion, but not in any important way.

[MikeWaters]

There are all kinds of illegal immigrants in my stake. I know because I've talked to the recent former stake presidency member about it. The role of the stake was to help them in the gospel, not to kick them out or ask them to leave.

However, I have seen how the paranoia associated with being illegal can be destructive to families. They so fear being deported that they really miss out on a lot.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I'm aware of the Spanish Branches. I'm not aware that any of the good people in the Spanish Branches that I know personally are illegal.

I think I shared a story here a few months ago about an experience in my ward here in Irvine.

A member of our Bishopric got up in Priesthood opening exercises and made an announcement from the pulpit....a member from a Spanish branch in Santa Ana was deported and his sons were now unable to go to Scout camp. The bishopric member asked if people were willing to donate cash to help send the boys to camp and help the family out until the father could get back. Several hands shot up and within a few minutes, we were on to the next announcement. There was no talk about how the dad was illegal, hooray he was deported, the Church doesnt condone illegal immigration, or anything of the sort.

The Church totally looks the other way when it comes to immigration and its members. Always has, and not just here. I saw basically the same stuff on my mission, but there it was Bolivians and Chilenos.

if the Church were truly for sustaining the law of the land, then it would fight vigorously against anything that threatened the right to an abortion....after all, that is the law of the land....and the Church not only obeys the law of the land, but it sustains it and honors it.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are not that naive. You know they don't uphold US immigration laws. The LDS Church has a long history of refusing to upholding unjust and evil laws.

Your retreat to the Valiant B class answer "12th Article of Faith!!!" tells me your mindset on this issue--closed, belligerent, spiteful, fearful and paranoid.

But other than that you are a great guy--welcome back in my home anytime.

I appreciate that. I'll even abide by your house rules.

My original comment was that the Church implored compassion. It said nothing about deporting everyone or deporting nobody. Cannon, OTH, thinks amnesty is a great idea.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I think I shared a story here a few months ago about an experience in my ward here in Irvine.

A member of our Bishopric got up in Priesthood opening exercises and made an announcement from the pulpit....a member from a Spanish branch in Santa Ana was deported and his sons were now unable to go to Scout camp. The bishopric member asked if people were willing to donate cash to help send the boys to camp and help the family out until the father could get back. Several hands shot up and within a few minutes, we were on to the next announcement. There was no talk about how the dad was illegal, hooray he was deported, the Church doesnt condone illegal immigration, or anything of the sort.

The Church totally looks the other way when it comes to immigration and its members. Always has, and not just here. I saw basically the same stuff on my mission, but there it was Bolivians and Chilenos.

if the Church were truly for sustaining the law of the land, then it would fight vigorously against anything that threatened the right to an abortion....after all, that is the law of the land....and the Church not only obeys the law of the land, but it sustains it and honors it.

I never said deport the illegals. I just noted that Cannon wanted to give them amnesty.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

My original comment was that the Church implored compassion.

I think you're right. The church merely wanted LDS INS agents to give very empathetic looks to those whom they deport.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I agree with Adam, that the church's actions is not consistent with believing that illegal immigration is actually breaking a law that members should respect.

The church has asked for compassion. But let's read the tea leaves--the church has asked for nothing specific, whereas with the gay issue, they have been much more specific.

This sends the signal that the church wants compassion, but not in any important way.

It is not a fair comparison.

The gay issue in California is a specific amendment that will come to vote on November 4. There is no specific immigration bill that comparably dictates an extreme result: full deportation or full amnesty. So of course the Church cannot tell members how to vote.

But the tea leaves should be read in the context in which they were poured. there are very strong feelings within the Church culture about basically rounding everyone up and throwing them out....because they are "breaking the law."

You could be right, though. But my take is that the Church was specifically referencing immigration reform. What other sort of compassion would they be talking about? As I asked IPU, how were members previously acting without compassion towards illegals?

[MikeWaters]

DDD, I have a hard time believing that the church can't come up with a single piece of immigration legislation that they support.

For example, they could support the DREAM act, which would help all the LDS kids here who are in immigration limbo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

I wrote to my senator asking him to vote for it. Of course, he is a right wing zealot, so I think he voted against it.