On behalf of the First Presidency

[SoonerCoug]

I have a Polish coworker who has a green card. He is engaged to be married, but even after he gets married, his wife will not be granted a visa unless she enrolls at a university or a company sponsors her. They want to start having kids right away. (They're devout catholics and they're both about 40 years old.) He has lived here for ~13 years, and he considers America his new home, but he feels forced to choose between his wife and his career.

It's a very screwed up system.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Define "compassionate" solution.

I don't have a good one. Hence the quotes. I'm not sure a passionless institution is capable of such anyway.

I think taking into account family and criminal history certainly ought to be a part of the equation. And whatever solution is implemented for those already here, it must not be so attractive as to induce more to come here illegally. The legal path ought to be more attractive than the illegal path ... "keeping the honest people honest," as they say.

And I think we should do away with the foolish term "undocument immigrant."

[FMCoug]

Question for those here who advocate "throwing them all out".

How do you feel about the fact that many of the early Saints continued in thier polygamous marriages after it was made illegal? Should they have just chosen a wife / family to keep and divorced the rest?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

I think taking into account family and criminal history certainly ought to be a part of the equation. And whatever solution is implemented for those already here, it must not be so attractive as to induce more to come here illegally. The legal path ought to be more attractive than the illegal path ... "keeping the honest people honest," as they say.

Agreed.

Also, any solution to the amnesty/no amnesty debate will be rendered almost moot unless the pourous border is closed up to those wishing to come here illegally afterwards. It seems like both problems must be addressed simultaneously.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Question for those here who advocate "throwing them all out".

How do you feel about the fact that many of the early Saints continued in thier polygamous marriages after it was made illegal? Should they have just chosen a wife / family to keep and divorced the rest?

I hate this argument. Was 'illegal immigration' illegal when the people 'illegally immigrated'? Kinda devalues your point, doesn't it?


That said, I'm personally on the fence on this. I have yet to hear a solution I think will work, and until then I won't get behind anything.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I hate this argument. Was 'illegal immigration' illegal when the people 'illegally immigrated'? Kinda devalues your point, doesn't it?

I see what you're saying. But the bottom line is that you have families that are partially legal/illegal. However they got that way, if you kick ou the illegals you're advocating breaking up families.

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

It isn't a question of disagreeing with me. Amnesty for illegals is not my creation.

It is a question of treating illegals like humans, as opposed to advocating shooting them as they hop over the wall (some minutemen advocate this) or throwing them all out simply because they are here illegally. Some who feel this way are motivated by hate, no doubt. Some arent.

With Elder Jensen's recent comments, I feel comfortable that the will-not-budge-on-amnesty crowd is further away from the the truth than I am. Just my opinion.

I never figured you for a Mister P-type. You know, everyone with whom you disagree gets covered in a nice, warm blanket statement.

You were the one who brought hate into the discussion with your snipe dig. If you just meant snipe specifically and not anti-amnesty folks in general, then I apologize.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Venkman

You were the one who brought hate into the discussion with your snipe dig. If you just meant snipe specifically and not anti-amnesty folks in general, then I apologize.

No apology necessary, but appreciated.

To clarify, clearly you can be anti-amnesty and not be motivated by hate. But once the Church starts calling for more compassion towards illegals and you start digging in your heels, clinging doggedly to the "obey the law" argument, it is pretty clear that there is more at play than your love for the law. (I mean "you" generically, not YOU personally, venkman)

Snipe has a long history of dogmatism. I think he is kind of a posterboy of sorts for this line of thinking within our culture. In a recent thread about this, Snipe revealed that his father had instilled in him much of his politics. That kind of added a piece to the puzzle.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

No apology necessary, but appreciated.

To clarify, clearly you can be anti-amnesty and not be motivated by hate. But once the Church starts calling for more compassion towards illegals and you start digging in your heels, clinging doggedly to the "obey the law" argument, it is pretty clear that there is more at play than your love for the law. (I mean "you" generically, not YOU personally, venkman)

Snipe has a long history of dogmatism. I think he is kind of a posterboy of sorts for this line of thinking within our culture. In a recent thread about this, Snipe revealed that his father had instilled in him much of his politics. That kind of added a piece to the puzzle.

My father's instilled a lot of things into me. My favorite sports team's. My sense of right & wrong. My devotion to my family.

One thing I NEVER gleaned from my father, however, was my political views.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

I see what you're saying. But the bottom line is that you have families that are partially legal/illegal. However they got that way, if you kick ou the illegals you're advocating breaking up families.

Fair enough. I'll point out the church is asking for 'MORE compassion', and not 'FULL compassion', which are, IMO, completely different things.


IMO, any remedy to this has got to include a plan to allow aliens to obtain citizenship (assuming they fulfill certain requirements, such as not being criminals (well, other than having broken the law to come in the first place)), allow taxation of these individuals while they're working to become legal in exchange for certain benefits (medicare, etc.), close the borders to further illegal immigration, AND make LEGAL immigration more sane.


Not exactly an easy proposition.