A mullah is born every minute

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by Tex

The trouble some of you have, is comprehending how an institution could forbid behavior (and require that a student sign on the dotted line to forswear it) that would otherwise be perfectly socially accepted behavior. To you, I simply say, go elsewhere. You'll never be happy at BYU.

Why can't we just gripe about a perceived flaw in an otherwise fantastic institution of learning that we are fond of and attached to?

[TripletDaddy]

So as not to solely gripe, I can say something really positive about BYU......does anyone remember back in the days of the "cougareat," they used to serve breakfast. "Breakfast A" consisted of 2 eggs, o'brien potatoes, hash browns, toast, and juice. It cost about $1.50.

I think I ate Breakfast A almost every weekday morning the year after my mission.

I miss Breakfast A sometimes.

[Archaea]

Somewhere somebody has linked a great talk that all institutions are inherently flawed and evil, but in order to strain the good from the bad, we suffer the necessary evils. The Church and BYU are no different.

I do not challenge BYU's right to have an honor code, but what I challenge is what it governs and how they do it. As a member who does not conflate honor code observance and worthiness, it seems the decisions reached as a result of WWII concerns of GIs smoking on campus have elevated unnecessarily to God given commandments.

Basically, the Honor Code is a rigid enforcement of 1950s type Mormon culture which is not something I believe the Church should promote. And although I believe some Honor Code should be in place, I do not like the manner in which the HCO is operated. Students should not be encouraged to rat out their fellow mates. If you have seen the movie, the Lives of Others, it reminds me of the East German Stasi mentality, something which I am violently opposed to.

And the HCO seemed in different times to lack adequate compassion and leniency. And this is coming from somebody having spent seven years there without running afoul of the honor code or its enforcement office. Although some express a duty of students to police others, I do not believe this is a legitimate role of adults. We need others to police themselves, unless of course it involves significant criminal activity or other activities which endangers the health or personal property rights of others.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Somewhere somebody has linked a great talk that all institutions are inherently flawed and evil, but in order to strain the good from the bad, we suffer the necessary evils. The Church and BYU are no different.

I do not challenge BYU's right to have an honor code, but what I challenge is what it governs and how they do it. As a member who does not conflate honor code observance and worthiness, it seems the decisions reached as a result of WWII concerns of GIs smoking on campus have elevated unnecessarily to God given commandments.

Basically, the Honor Code is a rigid enforcement of 1950s type Mormon culture which is not something I believe the Church should promote. And although I believe some Honor Code should be in place, I do not like the manner in which the HCO is operated. Students should not be encouraged to rat out their fellow mates. If you have seen the movie, the Lives of Others, it reminds me of the East German Stasi mentality, something which I am violently opposed to.

And the HCO seemed in different times to lack adequate compassion and leniency. And this is coming from somebody having spent seven years there without running afoul of the honor code or its enforcement office. Although some express a duty of students to police others, I do not believe this is a legitimate role of adults. We need others to police themselves, unless of course it involves significant criminal activity or other activities which endangers the health or personal property rights of others.

I got busted by the honor code office once. they were actually pretty cool. I had to go to a few interviews and write a letter about why I was sorry. no big deal.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I got busted by the honor code office once. they were actually pretty cool. I had to go to a few interviews and write a letter about why I was sorry. no big deal.

How did they catch you. Were you turned in by someone.

A guy in my ward asked my to play on their intramural softball team. Good guys and we ended up winning the intramural softball championships. Beat the jocks in the final game.

We had a get together later to celibrate at Hobble Creek. To my shock some guys were having a few brewskies on the course. To my knowledge none of the guys were turned in. Of course back in my day, no one ratted out athletes on winning teams.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

How did they catch you. Were you turned in by someone.

A guy in my ward asked my to play on their intramural softball team. Good guys and we ended up winning the intramural softball championships. Beat the jocks in the final game.

We had a get together later to celibrate at Hobble Creek. To my shock some guys were having a few brewskies on the course. To my knowledge none of the guys were turned in. Of course back in my day, no one ratted out athletes on winning teams.

Here's my attitude, I don't believe in ratting for noninjurious offenses, i.e., non criminal, non property damage activities or injury to persons.

My belief is simple: if somebody wishes to repent, he will do it, when he personally desires it. Forced repentance usually isn't sincere and doesn't work.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Here's my attitude, I don't believe in ratting for noninjurious offenses, i.e., non criminal, non property damage activities or injury to persons.

My belief is simple: if somebody wishes to repent, he will do it, when he personally desires it. Forced repentance usually isn't sincere and doesn't work.

The argument I could somewhat understand would be that the kids who break the rules are there taking a space that maybe someone who would obey the rules can't get. They could also say BYU is a community that has rules like America has laws. Therefor you are actually turning in someone who has committed a BYU crime.

The fact the church itself does not feel all laws in the US has to be followed, gives me the out, that I myself could choose to turn someone in for breaking BYU laws or not.

Therefor, my position is the same as yours, unless that person is committing a crime as far as the government is concerned, I am under no obligation to report it.

[OrangeUte]

my opinion is that the Y should have an honor code that is specific as to the academics (i.e. no cheating)... then, if they really want to police the morality issues, they would continue to have a requirement of a clergy endorsement that the student worships regularly and meets the standards as set... if they fail to get this endorsement for 1 semester they are put on probation, if they fail to get it for 2 semesters, then the student is suspended until an endorsement is produced.

do away with anything that doesn't pertain worthiness - i.e. tatoos, facial hair, knee length skirts...

[JohnnyLingo]

Are the people who are offended by BYU's Honor Code similarly offended by other schools that restrict what their students can and cannot do? There are hundreds of private schools that enforce dress codes, for example. Do you rant and rave against them?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Are the people who are offended by BYU's Honor Code similarly offended by other schools that restrict what their students can and cannot do? There are hundreds of private schools that enforce dress codes, for example. Do you rant and rave against them?

I don't particularly like the rules they have at Bob Jones University or the University of Jihad. However I am not offended by what they do. I am not offended by what BYU does either.

I do care about what goes on at BYU more than the other two though.