wow, is this true???

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The more one examines McConkie the more one wonders how anybody bought into his BS.

This book now causes more harm than good and should be removed. Over and over it contradicts current MD. My father gave me his copy of the 1976 printing of BRM's nefarious work. He told me it was essentially evil and to destroy it (this from a former SP). Since his passing, I can't give it up because it contains his notes, but be assured it isn't on display.

The section on Evolution contains ten pages of pure BS. An example from page 255:

"Thus the period during which birth and life, and death have been occurring on this earth is less than 6,000 years...There is no harmony between the truths of revealed religion and the theories of organic evolution."

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Requiem

This book now causes more harm than good and should be removed. Over and over it contradicts current MD. My father gave me his copy of the 1976 printing of BRM's nefarious work. He told me it was essentially evil and to destroy it (this from a former SP). Since his passing, I can't give it up because it contains his notes, but be assured it isn't on display.

The section on Evolution contains ten pages of pure BS. An example from page 255:

"Thus the period during which birth and life, and death have been occurring on this earth is less than 6,000 years...There is no harmony between the truths of revealed religion and the theories of organic evolution."

It is obviously not LDS doctrine and it is Bruce R. McConkie's opinions. It contains principles and ideas that are not in accordance with LDS doctrine, but it contains many others that are. In fact I have come across many parts of that book that I believe are down right enlightening.

It is a cool thing to pile on McConkie, I think because of his reflections of many cultural beliefs so prevalent in LDS culture in the 60's and 70's. Elder Bruce R. McConkie is a victim of his cultural biases no different than you and I. We might think ourselves more sophisticated, open minded and all types of nipple hardening stuff, but I am not convinced we really are. Time might make us fools as well. Time might even make the great SeattleUte a fool.

Further, I would think as open minded folks, academics, intellectualls, anti-Tex's and all that is good and great about Cougarguard, the US of A and the LDS Church we should not be advocating hiding or ignoring any book that has a collection of thoughts that has had an impact on as big a group of people as the Mormons. Disagree with it all we want, but to discard it as some type of embarassment seems to me a bit like putting one's head in the sand.

PS. I am not a mullah so if Elder McConkie, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, can be wrong in his opinions, which I believe he was on a certain number, so can any Stake President.

[MikeWaters]

as BYU71 asked Tex, was BRM aware of the phrase "in my opinion"?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Requiem

This book now causes more harm than good and should be removed. Over and over it contradicts current MD. My father gave me his copy of the 1976 printing of BRM's nefarious work. He told me it was essentially evil and to destroy it (this from a former SP). Since his passing, I can't give it up because it contains his notes, but be assured it isn't on display.

The section on Evolution contains ten pages of pure BS. An example from page 255:

"Thus the period during which birth and life, and death have been occurring on this earth is less than 6,000 years...There is no harmony between the truths of revealed religion and the theories of organic evolution."

Are there any transcripts or articles containing the ideas or points made in that debate between BH Roberts and Joseph F. Smith when the Q12 decided to punt on the evolution issue?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

as BYU71 asked Tex, was BRM aware of the phrase "in my opinion"?

The military gave me visceral reactions every time I had to kiss the ass of a higher ranking officer just because he was a higher ranking officer. Then in time it distilled upon my soul that the biggest ass kissers were the commanding officers just below another commanding officer. I concluded that the troop commanders liked how squadron commanders were treated because they one day envisioned themselves sitting in the catbird seat saying "its good to be the King!" The cycle just repeats itself with one generation outdoing the next. One of the reasons I chose to leave the service was because I thought it must be really, really difficult to be treated that way and not begin to believe you were that important. Words cannot describe the respect and admiration I had for high ranking commanders who could stay grounded in their how humanity despite the over the top institutionally driven obsequiousness.

IMO, the LDS Church has a similar tendency (well to be honest most organizations with a hierarchy do). Apostles' opinions are so revered and respected that they begin to forget they have opinions. I think that one of the benefits of "Mormon Doctrine" is that it has brought a certain level of introspection to the Q12 and they are concerned about "creating new doctrine." Hence, they do spend time genuinely evaluating anything they are about to utter. This results in more drab and basic GC talks, but we as Saints will whine why they don't expound into deeper doctrines but then castigate Elder Bruce R. McConkie and indicate that his books should be burned, with respect to his beyond boring "Mortal Messiah" series not a truer word has been spoken.

[MikeWaters]

like I said I don't mind of an apostle goes astray into his own opinion, especially if labeled as such, as long as not every single utterance is mullah-ish.

I would have liked it if an apostle had endorsed the civil rights movement in GC, instead of condemning it as a communist plot, as someone else did in GC.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

It is obviously not LDS doctrine and it is Bruce R. McConkie's opinions. It contains principles and ideas that are not in accordance with LDS doctrine, but it contains many others that are. In fact I have come across many parts of that book that I believe are down right enlightening.

It is a cool thing to pile on McConkie, I think because of his reflections of many cultural beliefs so prevalent in LDS culture in the 60's and 70's. Elder Bruce R. McConkie is a victim of his cultural biases no different than you and I. We might think ourselves more sophisticated, open minded and all types of nipple hardening stuff, but I am not convinced we really are. Time might make us fools as well. Time might even make the great SeattleUte a fool.

Further, I would think as open minded folks, academics, intellectualls, anti-Tex's and all that is good and great about Cougarguard, the US of A and the LDS Church we should not be advocating hiding or ignoring any book that has a collection of thoughts that has had an impact on as big a group of people as the Mormons. Disagree with it all we want, but to discard it as some type of embarassment seems to me a bit like putting one's head in the sand.

PS. I am not a mullah so if Elder McConkie, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, can be wrong in his opinions, which I believe he was on a certain number, so can any Stake President.

You speak of the culture in the 70's and 80's. Think of the culture in the 40's, 50's adn 60's. If you think image control has some issues now, back then is was critical. There was a "us against the world" mentality, especially in Utah. I remember well talks and guidance to be very careful about hanging out with infidels. Don't associate with people who drink and smoke, unless you have a good shot at converting them and only hang out with them on your turf.

I lived in a world where me a some of my friends on occasion imbibed. Of course I thought we were the scourge of the earth. No doubt, the girls in school who let boys touch their boobs were whores.

I never heard my Dad utter a swear word until I was in my forties. He slipped and said "shit" and my mom claims he used even worse when he was fighting in Germany.

So many of the things I was taught culturally growing up turned out to be utterly false. There are people who drink and smoke who have good families. To even indicate such gives me pause and I would never say so in a public forum like Cougarboard for fear of shattering someones testimony.

That is the culture and environment Brother McKonkie lived in. I cut him slack. At that time there just weren't that many people that felt it was OK to publicly challenge the opinions of a GA, after all they were the word of God. Nowdays, a lot more people assert there right to listen to the Brethern and decide for themselves. I honestly believe their opinions should be weighed heavily and for the most part would be correct, however no one can put me on some guilt trip if I express disagreement.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Are there any transcripts or articles containing the ideas or points made in that debate between BH Roberts and Joseph F. Smith when the Q12 decided to punt on the evolution issue?

We are but lowly minions here to serve you our beloved Sir Goat:

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...y/chapter6.htm

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

like I said I don't mind of an apostle goes astray into his own opinion, especially if labeled as such, as long as not every single utterance is mullah-ish.

I would have liked it if an apostle had endorsed the civil rights movement in GC, instead of condemning it as a communist plot, as someone else did in GC.

Exactly.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Requiem

We are but lowly minions here to serve you our beloved Sir Goat:

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...y/chapter6.htm

You might be a Ute and a softball player which causes me to wonder if you "bat for the Utes," but by golly you are OK in my book!

I am bookmarking that one and I have a whole week of boredom in a hotel room planned in San Fran next week so I will engage.

Thank you much!