Question about the missionary program "raising the bar"

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

The main difference now is that multiple partners is close to the death penalty as far as serving a mission goes. They have backed off slightly from the initial bar raising allowing for more of an "appeals process" shall we say. Prior to raising the bar one could have had significant "experience" and still go.

I think the intention, as BlueK said, was to have prospective Elders preparing their whole youth to serve. I fully agree that one of the unintended (or perhaps it was well understood) consequences is that some of the best people persons will be excluded. Let's face it, that's how some of them got into trouble in the first place.

Makes sense, and I completely agree with you.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Archaea

not, O-Mike no Okasama-sama-ohama?

I defer to O-nikuman-sama or Brian-kun for a ruling.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I know that in my mission, the "problem" elders were the ones doing all the baptizing. There is no correlation between righteousness and obedience to mission rules and the number of people that you are able to baptize.

Ditto

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

That was an interesting time for The Church in Japan, and in the Tokyo South Mission in particular. And I'm not using the very positive interpretation of "interesting." I leave it to someone else closer to the situation to discuss the particulars, but there was a major clean-up project after that era.

I think I have related this before, but I can repeat the story. I was in Osaka at the time and we were averaging 80-120 baptism per month for our mission (all of Japan was red hot at the time). But in Tokyo South, they were in the 900-1000 per month range and were leading the world.

My last companion had a younger brother in Tokyo South at the time (polish twins). He would write to my companion every week and tell him what was going on. It was basically a baptism factory. The mission pres. ran the mission like a multi-level marketing company. Extreme pressure for numbers and star-like status for top performers. It got to where they were setting up apartments next to major train stations. They would street contact young kids (jr. high - high school) and take them up to the apart. for discussions. They also got small fonts in each apart. They would teach one discussion or maybe two and then invite the person to church (held in the apartment) and tell them to "bring a towel". At church they would do a rah-rah-rah about baptism and get as many investigators as possible in the water. Great for numbers, but almost no retention. Many of the converts were never seen again and many of the missionaries didn't care. The focus was purely on numbers. My comp's little brother was so disgusted that it was all he could do to stay there. It was hell for him.

I have a good friend in our ward who was a missionary there during the same time. He confirmed all of this.

During my mission, the Tokyo Temple was built and dedicated. All missionaries in Japan were allowed to travel to Tokyo for the event. Many of the missionaries in our mission asked if they could spend some time with the Tokyo South missionaries learning their secrets to success. Our mission president responded: "I have been to Tokyo to personally observe what they are doing. Over my dead body will we start using those techniques here in Osaka." (God bless him - I dearly love that man).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I think I have related this before, but I can repeat the story. I was in Osaka at the time and we were averaging 80-120 baptism per month for our mission (all of Japan was red hot at the time). But in Tokyo South, they were in the 900-1000 per month range and were leading the world.

My last companion had a younger brother in Tokyo South at the time (polish twins). He would write to my companion every week and tell him what was going on. It was basically a baptism factory. The mission pres. ran the mission like a multi-level marketing company. Extreme pressure for numbers and star-like status for top performers. It got to where they were setting up apartments next to major train stations. They would street contact young kids (jr. high - high school) and take them up to the apart. for discussions. They also got small fonts in each apart. They would teach one discussion or maybe two and then invite the person to church (held in the apartment) and tell them to "bring a towel". At church they would do a rah-rah-rah about baptism and get as many investigators as possible in the water. Great for numbers, but almost no retention. Many of the converts were never seen again and many of the missionaries didn't care. The focus was purely on numbers. My comp's little brother was so disgusted that it was all he could do to stay there. It was hell for him.

I have a good friend in our ward who was a missionary there during the same time. He confirmed all of this.

During my mission, the Tokyo Temple was built and dedicated. All missionaries in Japan were allowed to travel to Tokyo for the event. Many of the missionaries in our mission asked if they could spend some time with the Tokyo South missionaries learning their secrets to success. Our mission president responded: "I have been to Tokyo to personally observe what they are doing. Over my dead body will we start using those techniques here in Osaka." (God bless him - I dearly love that man).

It was discouraging to those of us in Germany receiving vanglorious reports from Tokyo South missionaries. My friend is now completely inactive and divorced, but that's another matter.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Since they have raised the bar they are not allowing missionaries that have had premarital sex right?

Doesn't that seem counter to the doctrine of repentance? Anybody have any insight into the reasoning here?

They should make missionaries a take lie detector test prior to entering the MTC. The only question should be "Do you truly want to go on a mission?" That would sort most of the problem missionaries out for you. As for "raising the bar", I'm against churches using corporate sounding phrases.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

They should make missionaries a take lie detector test prior to entering the MTC. The only question should be "Do you truly want to go on a mission?" That would sort most of the problem missionaries out for you. As for "raising the bar", I'm against churches using corporate sounding phrases.

No that wouldn't do anything. I think 99% of them would pass that test. The problem is when its freezing cold outside and your alarm clock rings at 6:00 am, and you hate your companion, and the language is way harder than you thought to learn, and everybody blows you off, and someone made fun of you the day before, and you hate the food, and nothing you do works. That's when you become a bad missionary, if you're going to at all.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by jay santos

No that wouldn't do anything. I think 99% of them would pass that test. The problem is when its freezing cold outside and your alarm clock rings at 6:00 am, and you hate your companion, and the language is way harder than you thought to learn, and everybody blows you off, and someone made fun of you the day before, and you hate the food, and nothing you do works. That's when you become a bad missionary, if you're going to at all.

Were we companions?

[danimal]

It will be interesting to see if we develop a new category of young saints -- those who are mission age and active, but can no longer go on missions because of prior sins. That's a very awkward situation to be in -- especially with everybody in the ward wondering why you aren't on a mission when you appear to be active and worthy.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by danimal

It will be interesting to see if we develop a new category of young saints -- those who are mission age and active, but can no longer go on missions because of prior sins. That's a very awkward situation to be in -- especially with everybody in the ward wondering why you aren't on a mission when you appear to be active and worthy.

Interesting; what if they "raised the bar" for Elders Quorum attendance? What percentage of active members appear to be active and worthy, but in reality are falling short?

Fortunately for many, the gospel is one of inclusion. Just not so much for the proselytizing demographic.