Immodest dressing Seminary Student.

[YOhio]

I'll bet this girl has heard a modesty talk at least once a month since she was 12. She's chosen to take a liberal interpretation of LDS dress standards and her parents have allowed her to. There is a danger of her being offended, creeped out or annoyed that everybody is so concerned with her choice of clothing and choose not to associate herself with the church. I recommend ignoring it.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Donuthole

Some of you already know that I'm teaching early morning seminary this year for my first time. The early mornings suck, but I really enjoy teaching the scriptures to these kids, and I enjoy the personal study I put in to prepare the lessons.

My dilemma is that I have a young lady in my class that is constantly wearing immodest shirts. She's one of the more attractive young women in the class, and is the typical "only 16 but looks like she's 22" girl. Some days are worse than others, and it really wasn't that much of a problem until yesterday. But yesterday, the shirt she wore was unbelievably revealing. It was extremely low cut and very tight. At the very least, she needed an undershirt to cover the cleavage as well as provide an extra layer to hide some of her feminine contours.

If she were a wallflower and never participated, or if attendance were sporadic, then it wouldn't be nearly the problem. However, she's in class everyday and is one of the best students in the class. She provides some of the most insightful comments, and is always willing to read a scripture or say a prayer, etc.

Which brings me to my point. This is a major distraction for the class. Half the class is 15-16 year old boys who end up oogling her for the entire 40 minutes. Needless to say, it isn't bringing the spirit into the class, and it isn't helping the class concentrate.

What should I do? I don't feel comfortable pulling her aside and talking to her myself about it, as I don't think it's my place. Do I call her bishop? Parents?

Do everything you can to subtly influence her to go to BYU. BYU will make sure she dresses appropriately even if you, her parents and her Bishop can't.

[myboynoah]

At risk of sounding like a prude, some thoughts:

The young woman needs some friendly advice on appropriate attire, which in the long run will serve her very well in life. Who should do it? Certainly not you or any other male (heaven forbid you involve the Bishop). I suggest you talk to your wife for advice on who might be the best person to address this problem. I suspect the YW Presidency might be a good start, and it doesn't need to be a direct one-on-one discussion, but could be made part of a lesson or such.

In our office last year we had an intern who dressed in a similar fashion: daily cleavage, short skirts, etc. A very nice, attractrive, and sincere young lady, worked fairly professionally. Her dress was just more appropriate for a night club and picking up guys, not something for a professional office where contact with clients was a possibility. I thought something needed to be said for two reasons:

1. Our image was at stake
2. Her image was at stake; in other words, she needed to understand for her own professional development that the way she dressed would not serve her well.

I raised this with my boss who agreed but punted. He'd had similar experience in the past and the woman took great exception; it didn't turn out well. The solution was to do nothing; she would leave soon and the problem would go away.

Then a few days later a professional woman in a neighboring office came to us with the same concern and wanted to know what we were going to do about it. Seeing our reticence to address the young lady directly, she volunteered to do so, and things got better. She also sent us the following article that makes a lot of sense:

A cleavage of views - pornification of the workplace

Gee, how surprising, modesty isn't just a Mormon thing.

[Lost Student]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

You should take some pictures and let us decide if its too immodest

TTIWWOP

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Clearly she isn't sufficiently repressed. Attractiveness drives away the spirit. We must punish women for their sexuality. Boys who want to wear sweat pants can't. There are scriptures affirming all of these notions. Let's turn the kids into whited sepulchers.


I'll bet the boys' attendance is good.

Tell me you're being facetious. "Punishing women for their sexuality"? "Whited sepulchers"? Really?

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I don't know how many here have done early morning seminary, but I remember it well. I would say that for most kids, just having them attend is about as big a victory as you can expect. If he being offended over you saying something to her or her folks became a reason not to come anymore, that would be a shame.

I say this is a situation where you don't do anything.

This would get my vote as well. You could end up offending the student and/or parents. If she is being taught that she doesn't have to be ashamed of her body, then maybe she is trying to "find herself" in terms of what she wears and what she conveys through that. I'd let it pass and instead teach principles to the students such as self-respect. I think teachings about modesty are really more about self-respect, and IMO there is not a 1:1 correspondence between the two. [What I'm trying to say here is that immodesty does not necessarily violate any valuable principles per se].

I must say, though, that if you think this is bad, I devoloped the self-control of steel over the 4 years of teaching short skirts on the front row at UNC. While at first they were quite scandalous to me, it wasn't even a distraction after a few years. And personally I think this shift had more to do with a healthier attitude about women and sexuality than it did about acquiring a resistance to "sin", "immodesty" or the like.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

This would get my vote as well. You could end up offending the student and/or parents. If she is being taught that she doesn't have to be ashamed of her body, then maybe she is trying to "find herself" in terms of what she wears and what she conveys through that. I'd let it pass and instead teach principles to the students such as self-respect. I think teachings about modesty are really more about self-respect, and IMO there is not a 1:1 correspondence between the two. [What I'm trying to say here is that immodesty does not necessarily violate any valuable principles per se].

So... when the FSOY pamphlet says:

"Immodest clothing includes short shorts, tight pants, and other revealing attire. Young women should refrain from wearing off-the-shoulder, low-cut, or revealing clothes. Young men should similarly maintain modesty in their dress. All should avoid tight fitting or revealing clothes and extremes in clothing and appearance."

The brethren are way off base?

I'm also against the idea of "lowering the bar" and not expecting as much from our youth.

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

So... when the FSOY pamphlet says:

"Immodest clothing includes short shorts, tight pants, and other revealing attire. Young women should refrain from wearing off-the-shoulder, low-cut, or revealing clothes. Young men should similarly maintain modesty in their dress. All should avoid tight fitting or revealing clothes and extremes in clothing and appearance."

The brethren are way off base?

I'm also against the idea of "lowering the bar" and not expecting as much from our youth.

Not necessarily, no. But what is being taught? If you spend your whole life discussing the appearance of women in terms of "too immodest" then you are objectifying women just as much, but in a different way. I feel the immodest attire is not grounds for negative judgments, and that's why I would ignore the situation. If it would warrant a legal action (indecency or whatever they call it) then fine, but otherwise, in my mind it is simply a mind your own business type of situation. That's just my opinion, I'm not trying to argue that it's right, but I do personally pity the kind of people that would want to police what others wear. The FSOY pamphlet doesn't encourage THAT, to my knowledge.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Not necessarily, no. But what is being taught? If you spend your whole life discussing the appearance of women in terms of "too immodest" then you are objectifying women just as much, but in a different way. I feel the immodest attire is not grounds for negative judgments, and that's why I would ignore the situation. If it would warrant a legal action (indecency or whatever they call it) then fine, but otherwise, in my mind it is simply a mind your own business type of situation. That's just my opinion, I'm not trying to argue that it's right, but I do personally pity the kind of people that would want to police what others wear. The FSOY pamphlet doesn't encourage THAT, to my knowledge.

No, the FSOY pamphlet doesn't encourage the policing of others, but it in and of itself is policing how the youth of the church conduct themselves, in a way.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

No, the FSOY pamphlet doesn't encourage the policing of others, but it in and of itself is policing how the youth of the church conduct themselves, in a way.

I encourage the policing of religious nuts.