Brian and Fus's theory on God commanding Adam and Eve not to judge

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Dude, you simply are not paying attention. You really need to stick to the fundamentals, fusnik. You've gotten so far off the beaten path you don't appear to know which way is up, doctrinally speaking. Line upon line and so forth.

You do yourself no favors going into wild tangential lines of thought.

Few scriptures from the D & C:

95:

8 Yea, verily I say unto you, I gave unto you a commandment that you should build a house, in the which house I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high;

43:

16 And ye are to be taught from on high. Sanctify yourselves and ye shall be endowed with power, that ye may give even as I have spoken.

76:

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—
56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of cGod—
59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s

So we are endowed with what power? The knowledge that we are God's.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Wow, nice leap.

If I espouse the ideal that we are to be perfect, to love God, and to love our neighbor, does that not make one a Chrisitan? Should we not as 'mormons' strive this type of ideal in our life?

Without Christ we are unable to obtain perfection, but with him, we are able to obtain it in this probation.

Jay, one scripture about sin:

Isaiah 45:7-8

7 That they may know from the rising sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the Lord , and there is none else.

8 I form the light, and create the darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I asked you very specific questions about sin.

"Do you believe in sin--in the notion that sin is something that man might do that is wrong and that seperates us from God and makes us unworthy? Also do you believe that men might be born with a predisposition that makes them likely to commit said sin."

Your answer was "I don't know". Wrong. The answer to that first question is YES, with no possible misinterpretation. Then you say you're not sure what Christ's role is in our salvation (glory was your word). ???? Sorry, but you're no Mormon and no Christian for that matter. We're not haggling over obscure doctrine or whether or not Brigham liked young girls. We're talking about the #1 defining doctrine of Christian belief. Something that every prophet since the beginning of time taught, that is taught by the prophet and multiple apostles every general conference.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Wow, nice leap.

If I espouse the ideal that we are to be perfect, to love God, and to love our neighbor, does that not make one a Chrisitan? Should we not as 'mormons' strive this type of ideal in our life?

Without Christ we are unable to obtain perfection, but with him, we are able to obtain it in this probation.

I think you are taking this out of context. Jesus said that loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourdself are the first two commandmnets. However, he also says that upon these two commandments hang all the law and the prohpets. Now the law and the prohpets as he used the terms in Matthew probably refer to the mosaic law and the OT, but he does not asy that there are no other commandments, or ordinances, or requirements, but that all of these serve or are related to the greater purpose of helping us achieve the first two.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by creekster

I think you are taking this out of context. Jesus said that loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourdself are the first two commandmnets. However, he also says that upon these two commandments hang all the law and the prohpets. Now the law and the prohpets as he used the terms in Matthew probably refer to the mosaic law and the OT, but he does not asy that there are no other commandments, or ordinances, or requirements, but that all of these serve or are related to the greater purpose of helping us achieve the first two.

I could be taking things out of context, I am not the end all of knowledge, I'm not even a Mormon nor a Christian for that matter.



As for your assertions Jay think what you will, I have strong feelings concerning my relationship with Jesus, how that pertains to his or my glory, I know not, I do know that without Him all things are not attainable.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Few scriptures from the D & C:

95:

8 Yea, verily I say unto you, I gave unto you a commandment that you should build a house, in the which house I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high;

43:

16 And ye are to be taught from on high. Sanctify yourselves and ye shall be endowed with power, that ye may give even as I have spoken.

76:

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—
56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of cGod—
59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s

So we are endowed with what power? The knowledge that we are God's.

When you say "God's", do you mean in the possessive sense that we belong to God? Yeah, I agree with that.

If you really meant to say that we are "Gods", as in the plural, that simply is not the case. We have divine heritage, but we are not and will not be gods unless we receive Exaltation, which comes through the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and which gift is not given to all of God's (possessive) children.

Please re-read Section 76, which you even quoted, to drill that point home.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

If I espouse the ideal that we are to be perfect, to love God, and to love our neighbor, does that not make one a Chrisitan? Should we not as 'mormons' strive this type of ideal in our life?

P.S. the answer is no, that doesn't make on a Christian. Buddhists believe in loving God and their neighbor but they are not Christian. Being Christian means you believe in Jesus Christ and that he atoned for your SINS. And if you don't believe in sin, then you must not believe in the atonement and therefore you must have a dramatically different view of Christ.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

When you say "God's", do you mean in the possessive sense that we belong to God? Yeah, I agree with that.

If you really meant to say that we are "Gods", as in the plural, that simply is not the case. We have divine heritage, but we are not and will not be Gods unless we receive Exaltation, which comes through the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and which gift is not given to all of God's (possessive) children.

Clarification on that. We can become gods with lower case g.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Clarification on that. We can become gods with lower case g.

Yes.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by jay santos

P.S. the answer is no, that doesn't make on a Christian. Buddhists believe in loving God and their neighbor but they are not Christian. Being Christian means you believe in Jesus Christ and that he atoned for your SINS. And if you don't believe in sin, then you must not believe in the atonement and therefore you must have a dramatically different view of Christ.

What is evil/sin?

It's God created, so do I need to believe in a good vs evil force field to be a Chrisitan?

It's all an illusion that stems from the creation and our misinterpretation of the parts and players.

[livecoug]

wow fus, i don't know what to say... it would make more sense if you weren't of the mormon faith, but you contridict the church and it's doctrines so much, i don't know how to respond.