Those who discuss past transgressions

[bYuPride]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

I think they would have benefitted from talking about comfort levels, not history.

Again I don't know which side of the fence I sit on, there are certain health risks that occur when you have sex and sexual encoutners, but Utah isn't necessarily the breeding grounds of herpes, unless of course you live in downtown Ogden.

fus, think about it... if you tell your fiancee about "comfort levels" and your comfort level is having oral sex. i think the history about how that became your comfort level will shine through.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Archaea

So now, guys are nothign but meat. Which slab is better.

I simply meant to make the point that a person making a decision about marriage deserves to know all they want to know. You asked "why would somebody want to know?" I answered with an example of risk management. There are myriad reasons somebody might want to know. My point is that it should be up to them what information is important and pertinent to them, and not up to you.

If the person you want to marry asks "have you ever..." and you deny because you know you have repented and been forgiven then I believe you are being dishonest.

Originally Posted by Archaea

What should lead her to ask? Mere curiosity. Are gals really balancing muliple guys like football recruits schools?

Is that the sort of thing a gal asks cavalierly?

Again, I gave one example of risk management. Who said anything about asking cavalierly? It is quite common to have such a discussion before marriage in our culture. What is cavalier about such a question of the man or woman one is considering marrying? There are any number of reasons why a woman or a man might want to know such things. Again, it is up to the individual re; what info they feel is important in making their decision.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm serious. Your spouse doesn't want to think about your past transgressions if you stay married. And there is a decent chance you will eventually get divorced and she will use your past sins to discredit you before the world.

No. The best course is to keep your sins to yourself. If she asks, lie about them.

Unless you have nothing to lie about, which is the best situation of course.

Wow....lying to your eternal companion. That's certainly a way to start off a trusting relationship.

I'm not advocating full disclosure about past sins, but outright lying is just the beginning of more eventual and inevitable deceptions.

[creekster]

Just like Speedo swimming suits, a one size fits all approach is a very bad idea on this topic. What to reveal and when to reveal it will depend greatly, I think, upon what it is that is being revealed and what effect it might have and to what prupose. I would never suggest someone should lie outright, but I can imagine many different scenarios that might with wisdom require either full disclosure, no disclosure or somethihg in the middle.

I know this sounds like a cop-out, but life is rarely as simple as many of you are making it sound and these types of issues in particular are sensitive and require judgement and discretion and, if you have it, the Force. Kidding aside, I think a specific answer that applies to everyone does not exist.

[il Padrino Ute]

There are two simple rules to follow when it comes to the sex part of marriage:

1. Never volunteer information, but if asked tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

2. Never ask a question if there is a remote possibility that you'll hear the answer you don't want to hear.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by creekster

Just like Speedo swimming suits, a one size fits all approach is a very bad idea on this topic. What to reveal and when to reveal it will depend greatly, I think, upon what it is that is being revealed and what effect it might have and to what prupose. I would never suggest someone should lie outright, but I can imagine many different scenarios that might with wisdom require either full disclosure, no disclosure or somethihg in the middle.

My point all along has simply been that the person deciding whether or not to marry you has the right to ask any question they want and get an honest answer. It's the only fair way for them to properly evaluate their options. I'm not saying that one has to volunteer the information. As Archaea mentioned, perhaps there are many who don't care to know. But IF they want to know, and they ask, I can't think of a situation where it would be appropriate to lie.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

My point all along has simply been that the person deciding whether or not to marry you has the right to ask any question they want and get an honest answer. It's the only fair way for them to properly evaluate their options. I'm not saying that one has to volunteer the information. As Archaea mentioned, perhaps there are many who don't care to know. But IF they want to know, and they ask, I can't think of a situation where it would be appropriate to lie.

You present valid points. As does Adam.

I understand theoretically how having past information might be helpful to see if somebody is made of the character which predicts potential future behavior. My experience is that persons of particularly licentious behavior will spill the beans without being asked. A sincerely repentant person might not.

OTH, perhaps it's me, but I guess I wish to forgive others without asking. It may be slightly due to a wish to be forgiven myself. Asking and reminding somebody of a sin seems contrary to helping somebody forget and overcome.

If asked, honesty seems a better policy, as the truth may ultimately be revealed, despite Adam's common sense evaluation of the situation.

In my little view, somebody asking about a past sin seems to drive a nail into the heart. Sin is a very heavy burden to carry, and relief through forgiveness is very precious. Anybody willing to threaten that for another better have a darn good reason. I hope not to endanger the possibility of forgiveness for another. But as Farrah points out, others may want that info.

Wow, who ever told us the consequences of sin are eternal, really knew of the large, spiderweb of interdimensional proportions. In fact, we are never free of it.

[Parrot Head]

Couldn't you just laugh it off and say, "Nothing I haven't repented of!" I have to disagree with IPU on the "whole truth" aspect because that waould go way too far. I'm actually more in the lying or downplay it arena.

I can't help but think of Best in Show where Eugene Levy is married to the former town bicycle and everywhere they go some guy knows her.

[Surfah]

I have had a few ecclesiastical leaders (beyond bishops, including one GA) advise that you should never disclose past transgressions. One leader said that he has counseled hundreds of couples and inevitably if one spouse had a history and shared that history with their companion that history became a bullet in a loaded gun. During the course of some argument that bullet would be fired and cause irreparable harm.

Another leader counseled against using past transgressions to teach. Doing so gives the person you're trying to help license to do what you did.

That said...this has been something I have struggled with mightily. While I want to be honest with my future spouse I doubt I will. Should she ask, I would question her intentions and that would cause more doubt in my mind than whether if she herself had a history that I was aware of.

I now share Farrah's sentiment that joking or recanting my past with buddies is making light of the atonement. But I must confess my freshman year at the Y we would have PT sessions and talk about things. I was called into the honor code office shortly thereafter. A member of our PT sessions who thoroughly enjoyed the stories of the follies of our youth apparently decided later that we all weren't worthy to be at BYU and turned us in anonymously. What a douche bag.

I am with Arch on this one.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by surfah33

I have had a few ecclesiastical leaders (beyond bishops, including one GA) advise that you should never disclose past transgressions. One leader said that he has counseled hundreds of couples and inevitably if one spouse had a history and shared that history with their companion that history became a bullet in a loaded gun. During the course of some argument that bullet would be fired and cause irreparable harm.

I don't care who said it. I still can't imagine a situation where lying to one's fiancee is acceptable behavior. I suppose one could say "there are events in my past for which I've been forgiven and I choose not to discuss them as they are no longer important." However, I still maintain that what is important is up to her and not you. There are many reasons why a woman might ask difficult questions. Not all of these reasons are selfish, or meant to have a bullet to fire in the future.

Originally Posted by surfah33

Another leader counseled against using past transgressions to teach. Doing so gives the person you're trying to help license to do what you did.

I completely agree with this. Imagine a kid sitting in a YM lesson and listening to the instructor say that while he did lines and slept with women in the past he's come to know God's redeeming grace. All that kid is going to remember is that one of his leaders did a lot of fun/wrong things but he's now doing just fine.

Originally Posted by surfah33

That said...this has been something I have struggled with mightily. While I want to be honest with my future spouse I doubt I will. Should she ask, I would question her intentions and that would cause more doubt in my mind than whether if she herself had a history that I was aware of.

I really can't relate here, though it is clear that many board members agree with you. I don't understand why people would be afraid to be totally honest if the problem has been taken care of. If the girl is who you believe she is then she'll A) realize that you're still the one she loves and that you've taken care of the problem properly and B) that you're willing to be totally and completely honest with her even about matters that are uncomfortable and painful. I really don't see a downside with honesty. If such information is later used as a "bullet in a loaded gun" then she would be absolutely in the wrong. She'd need to be reminded that this information was fully disclosed before she made the decision to marry you. Once that decision is made, then the right to complain about the past is over.

On the flip side if she were to somehow find out about your past after marriage, she could legitimately complain about it. I don't see an upside to dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to her reasons for wanting to know. I maintain that there are several legitimate reasons for a woman to ask.