How can LDS accommodate gays?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

"What about if a guy comes in with a machine gun and mows down the whole entire chapel? What if he gets out of jail and does it again? Should he still be allowed to particpate?"

OK dumbass, replace never with almost never.

I was thinking of more common place, non-criminal-type sins.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

I was thinking of more common place, non-criminal-type sins.

I was too. I'm not a black and white guy. I only see gray. So if I say something that sounds absolute, it's never as absolute as I say it. Adam's #4 is the point I'm discussing.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I was too. I'm not a black and white guy. I only see gray. So if I say something that sounds absolute, it's never as absolute as I say it. Adam's #4 is the point I'm discussing.

Were I in church leadership, I think I would be very circumspect about how I placed a person who was openly flaunting one of the more serious commandments in the gospel, and rightly so.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

Were I in church leadership, I think I would be very circumspect about how I placed a person who was openly flaunting one of the more serious commandments in the gospel, and rightly so.

rightly so, eh?

A couple points.

1. Adam's #4 wasn't specific about HOW one in that situation could serve only that they should be able to serve in a reasonable capacity.

2. Openly flaunting. That's an interesting phrase you use, and I agree someone openly flaunting a serious commandment in the gospel might be a reason to place some restrictions. What is openly flaunting?

I don't believe it's wrong, I think the church is serious error, and I will use every chance I get to preach against the church on the issue and discuss even brag about my sins?
I don't believe it's wrong but I believe the rest of the church and I'll try not to upset the apple court and won't discuss my personal beliefs or actions openly?
I know it's wrong but I'm sorry I just can't obey it and never will?
I know it's wrong and someday I pray I will have strength to obey it?
I know it's wrong and I'm working hard at it but still having regular slips?
I'm working hard and mostly successful with some slips?

I'd say only the first would be openly flaunting. Based on other interactions we've had on church discipline, I assume you would include all of these as openly flaunting?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

rightly so, eh?

A couple points.

1. Adam's #4 wasn't specific about HOW one in that situation could serve only that they should be able to serve in a reasonable capacity.

2. Openly flaunting. That's an interesting phrase you use, and I agree someone openly flaunting a serious commandment in the gospel might be a reason to place some restrictions. What is openly flaunting?

I don't believe it's wrong, I think the church is serious error, and I will use every chance I get to preach against the church on the issue and discuss even brag about my sins?
I don't believe it's wrong but I believe the rest of the church and I'll try not to upset the apple court and won't discuss my personal beliefs or actions openly?
I know it's wrong but I'm sorry I just can't obey it and never will?
I know it's wrong and someday I pray I will have strength to obey it?
I know it's wrong and I'm working hard at it but still having regular slips?
I'm working hard and mostly successful with some slips?

I'd say only the first would be openly flaunting. Based on other interactions we've had on church discipline, I assume you would include all of these as openly flaunting?

Not all "it"s are created equal. Child molestation, beer drinking and traffic violations would all get you to different spots on your flaunting scale before it should become an issue.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Not all "it"s are created equal. Child molestation, beer drinking and traffic violations would all get you to different spots on your flaunting scale before it should become an issue.

Child molesting is a different ball game. That will get the person jail time and if not would preclude them from any service involving minors.

For anything else, I don't see anything that should preclude someone from a regular level church calling. I'm not talking about salvation or even a temple recommend, I'm talking about participating and serving in the church.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Child molesting is a different ball game. That will get the person jail time and if not would preclude them from any service involving minors.

For anything else, I don't see anything that should preclude someone from a regular level church calling. I'm not talking about salvation or even a temple recommend, I'm talking about participating and serving in the church.

So a full-fledged alcoholic (meaning they drink daily and aren't receiving treatment for their addiction) should be allowed to serve as bishop? EQP? Sunday School instructor? Primary teacher? Home teacher? Guy who hands out programs at the door?

What about an unrepentant adulterer?

What about a guy that doesn't pay tithing?

At what point does the level of the sin limit the level of one's particpation in the church?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

It is the height of homophobia to say that sexual relations between two persons of the same gender in a committed long-term relationship is breaking one of "the more serious commandments".

Do you have any scriptural/modern-day prophetic basis to back that statement up?

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Adam

It is the height of homophobia to say that sexual relations between two persons of the same gender in a committed long-term relationship is breaking one of "the more serious commandments".

I would say your looking down your nose at them is a worse sin. I would say denying them the opportunity to serve as choir director or ward newsletter person is a more serious sin.

Any calling related to music, interior design, or hair styling should be available to male gays in the Church. Also ward activities director could result in some much more fabulous parties than currently take place.

For lesbian members, softball coach seems like a natural fit as a calling.

[MikeWaters]

Also gays should administer the Duty to God program, while Heterosexuals can administer the scout program.