Besides Tex, who believes that the OT provisions directing Irsaelites to mass murder

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

I can't think of any topic, ever, that I've felt compelled to start 2 independent threads on, in addition to the one it's already being discussed in.

Congrats on adhering to Corollary 2, by the way.

Congrats on being so self-absorbed and narcissistic that you develop principles where you are its center. It is doubtful any other poster here has ever done that. You are a first. King Narcissus at our service.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

In our debate about torture, Tex relied upon the cryptic and strange events in the OT, which were not duplicated in the BoM, to justify torture. He basically stated that "God ordered mass murder."

Because LDS will base political and personal decisions upon interpretations of scripture, both Hebrew, NT and LDS, it is important to understand the tradition of each episode so that a better construction can result. In one respect, it doesn't matter to you. In another respect, truth should be one of our ultimate pursuits of life. Which truths are more important is obviously a legitimate inquiry.

What I am saying and I think you agree with me is that there are so many truths to be pursued, we, or at least I should pursue those that have meaning for me. I am OK with torturing terrorists and don't need Gods approval to back me up. On the other hand if someone could convince me God thought it was wrong, I would change my mind. There is evidence in the scriptures to show, IMHO, that no one knows dieties opinion on the matter for sure and we are left to fend for ourselves.

You have to remember, I come from the perspective that people on Cougarboard, contrary to some of their feelings, are not private interpreters of scripture or what the Prophet means.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Congrats on being so self-absorbed and narcissistic that you develop principles where you are its center. It is doubtful any other poster here has ever done that. You are a first. King Narcissus at our service.

I think we're teetering on the brink of Corollary 1 here.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

What I am saying and I think you agree with me is that there are so many truths to be pursued, we, or at least I should pursue those that have meaning for me. I am OK with torturing terrorists and don't need Gods approval to back me up. On the other hand if someone could convince me God thought it was wrong, I would change my mind. There is evidence in the scriptures to show, IMHO, that no one knows dieties opinion on the matter for sure and we are left to fend for ourselves.

You have to remember, I come from the perspective that people on Cougarboard, contrary to some of their feelings, are not private interpreters of scripture or what the Prophet means.

I don't use scripture to justify much of any moral behavior. I use it to find a path toward possible salvation. In terms of political behavior, I use my own noggin.

Tex crossed the line trying to justify a difficult behavior with scripture. I'd just as soon never use the opinion of Providence to justify anything than to discuss religiosity.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't use scripture to justify much of any moral behavior. I use it to find a path toward possible salvation. In terms of political behavior, I use my own noggin.

Tex crossed the line trying to justify a difficult behavior with scripture. I'd just as soon never use the opinion of Providence to justify anything than to discuss religiosity.

I did not do what you suggested, and it's quite the disingenuous misrepresentation of what I did say.

I merely posed the question: could a God who could command mass murder could also potentially command torture? I didn't justify anything at all.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

I did not do what you suggested, and it's quite the disingenuous misrepresentation of what I did say.

I merely posed the question: could a God who could command mass murder could also potentially command torture? I didn't justify anything at all.

Now, you're not only being disengenuous, you're also extremely smarmy here.

You simply modified the mood of the verb to "could", but that word is suggestive enough to affirm you believe God did command mass murder. Your argument wasn't a hypothetical discussion of God's omnipotence. It was a moral justification for torture. At least BYU71 is upfront about it.

Of course, God has the power to command anything but because God is also "just" and "compassionate", he morally cannot command unjust activities.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Now, you're not only being disengenuous, you're also extremely smarmy here.

You simply modified the mood of the verb to "could", but that word is suggestive enough to affirm you believe God did command mass murder. Your argument wasn't a hypothetical discussion of God's omnipotence. It was a moral justification for torture. At least BYU71 is upfront about it.

You believe what you wish, but if you think I was trying to use the Bible to justify torture, you are very wrong.

Originally Posted by Archaea

Of course, God has the power to command anything but because God is also "just" and "compassionate", he morally cannot command unjust activities.

I'm gratified to know that Isaiah 55:8-9 doesn't apply to you.

[Archaea]

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

This is a wonderful form of argument that literalists are wont to fall back upon, when they lose.

First, put up an indefensible position.

Second, distort scripture for an unintended purpose.

Third, justify the distortions by resort to Deutor Isaiah's concluding remarks, which is malleable enough to be used for anything. This is priceless. Argue without persuasion you know God's will and that the absurd construction is God's and I'm an idiot for not recognizing God's ways are different than man's.

You won't find a person on this board which disagrees with the import of the scripture, but most will likely disagree it applies in this absurd situation.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Argue without persuasion you know God's will and that the absurd construction is God's...

This is exactly what you've been doing during this conversation.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

This is exactly what you've been doing during this conversation.

God's will is revealed in part in the BoM, and D&C. Show me where mass murder was condoned?