Lesson 22 (Gospel Doctrine): Slave, Bridesmaids, and Slaves

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Tex

Re: John Welch's article. I actually really enjoyed that article. It's not so much that I disagree with you--it does seem a little hyper-interpreted--but I think there is some value in such a thought experiment. It may or may not be exactly how Jesus intended it to be seen, but the parallels are thought provoking.

Actually, I agree with you Tex. Despite the fact that I think it is too allegorical in some sense of word, I still thought it was a good article. I also think that "thought provoking" in an of itself may be enough. I was trying to get at that a little bit in the notes when I said:

Allegory. One question that quickly sprung to my mind as I read this parable and the parable of the talents is how much allegory was originally intended by Jesus when he told these parables. Is each element a metaphor or symbol? Only a few? Or is it one metaphor? Of course, ultimately it is probably impossible to tell with any degree of certainty. Also, maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe the the "best" interpretation is the one that spiritually strengthens or moves you the most.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Tex

I view that sort of article the same way I view Spencer Kimball's talk "My Friend Peter" years ago, where he hypothesized that the Lord's prophesy ("thou shalt deny me thrice") was actually a commandment. I'm not persuaded that Kimball actually believed that, but it was an interesting way to look at the scripture as a springboard to other thoughts.

I liked that talk. I also am not persuaded that SK meant for it to be anything more than thought provoking, but it was fun to contemplate.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Tex

I view that sort of article the same way I view Spencer Kimball's talk "My Friend Peter" years ago, where he hypothesized that the Lord's prophesy ("thou shalt deny me thrice") was actually a commandment. I'm not persuaded that Kimball actually believed that, but it was an interesting way to look at the scripture as a springboard to other thoughts.

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

I liked that talk. I also am not persuaded that SK meant for it to be anything more than thought provoking, but it was fun to contemplate.

I believe both of you are actually referring to the following talk: Spencer W. Kimball, “Peter, My Brother,” BYU Speeches of the Year, July 13, 1971. Or are you guys referring to a different talk?

For those interested, you can actually find this talk in the appendix of New Testament institute manual: http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/n...in-13.htm#13-d

You can also listen to it on mp3 here: http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=browse&...year=&x=7&y=10

[Tex]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I believe both of you are actually referring to the following talk: Spencer W. Kimball, “Peter, My Brother,” BYU Speeches of the Year, July 13, 1971. Or are you guys referring to a different talk?

For those interested, you can actually find this talk in the appendix of New Testament institute manual: http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/n...in-13.htm#13-d

You can also listen to it on mp3 here: http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=browse&...year=&x=7&y=10

That's the one. I tried to find it on my own, but couldn't. I bow to your superior Google skills.

[pelagius]

Guys, I would Like to excerpt some of this discussion on my Sunday School blog. I think my class would find it useful. tooblue, Arch, Tex, and SteelBlue would you guys object to that?

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Guys, I would Like to excerpt some of this discussion on my Sunday School blog. I think my class would find it useful. tooblue, Arch, Tex, and SteelBlue would you guys object to that?

I don't think I've seen the URL for your blog. Do you mind posting it?

[Archaea]

Post anything you like.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

I don't think I've seen the URL for your blog. Do you mind posting it?

I actually link to it ever lesson, but I try not to make it too obvious because I don't want people to feel like I go around pimping it all the time. The lesson note archive link takes you to my Sunday School blog. It is really just my website for my gospel doctrine class members so it mostly just contains my lesson notes.

Originally Posted by pelagius

Past Lesson Notes
Lesson 21
Lesson 20,
Lesson Note Archive (Lesson 1-21)

[jay santos]

Gospel Doctrine was a works slugfest. We got the following doozies as comments or instruction.

1. The 5/10 virgins correlate to 50% activity in the church. Yet another opportunity for the class members to pat themselves on the back for their righteousness and worry about the salvation of all those that weren't in attendance.
2. Instructor said how it's such a danger in the church nowadays to say God loves us no matter what and his grace is always there. In fact he had once spent hours studying the scriptures to find where God loves us the same even when we sin and was unable to find anything.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Gospel Doctrine was a works slugfest. We got the following doozies as comments or instruction.

1. The 5/10 virgins correlate to 50% activity in the church. Yet another opportunity for the class members to pat themselves on the back for their righteousness and worry about the salvation of all those that weren't in attendance.

Does anyone know were this idea comes from. I mean it is a fairly natural step if your interpretation of the parable is highly allegorical, but have we seen semi-authoritative sources that have advanced this idea or is it exclusively at the folk level. And by the way I don't think you can blame BRM for this one:

What portion of the Church shall be saved? Surely this parable is not intended to divide half the saints into one group and half into another. But it does teach, pointedly and plainly, that there are foolish saints who shall fail to gain the promised rewards. --Bruce R. McConkie, DNTC 1:685