Is Obama crazy?

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Most Americans favor abortion, and of those who don't favor abortion, many at least favor exceptions where abortion could be allowed.

Again, I ask the question, if most Americans favor abortion, why does Obama want to make them rare? Abortion sounds like a great thing that should be promoted, not discouraged. Girls should not be punished with a baby.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

To me, partial birth abortion is infanticide. It is an awful thing that shouldn't be allowed and which almost no one favors.

I think that the rape/incest debate is a good one that we should have. Obviously we all know where the church stands on this. What is really being balanced here is the emotional well being of mom versus the right of the child to exist. If one favors the exceptions, then one necessarily believes that moms feelings trump baby's right to live. That is a drastic simplification, but that is the essence of it.

If you don't think that the fetus is a person with the attendant rights, the the only person in the equation (mom) wins. If you think the fetus is a person then I think one is logically compelled to conclude that the right to live will always trump the right to not suffer emotional harm. So really this is, again, about whether it is a person or not. This is a theological question, but I think it highlights that the McCain position is not a far out one.

I personally view abortions that are not to preserve the health of the mother as being moral evils. I would not out law them pre-viability because I recognize the ambiguity of when a fetus becomes a "person" and don't claim that I know the answer with certainty.

To me, making an argument that a baby's right to exist trumps the emotion damage to mom is a colorable that is intellectually defensible. Arguing that partial birth abortion should be allowed in any case except where moms life is literally in danger (and let be honest, partial birth abortion already involves a birth, so how much more risky is it to just pull it out rather than stick a scaple in the base of the skull once the body is already out) is not intellectually defensible in my opinion. If the debate gets framed around these extremes it is not a forgone conclusion to me that it is a net plus for Obama.

My sense, again, is that people want to keep abortion legal. But they also view is as a societal bad and are more than ready for it to be restricted in significant ways.

So "health of the mother" is limited to her physical health? Or are you including emotional health here?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Again, I ask the question, if most Americans favor abortion, why does Obama want to make them rare? Abortion sounds like a great thing that should be promoted, not discouraged. Girls should not be punished with a baby.

Where are you going with this? Nobody argues that abortion should be promoted. I think reasonable pro-choice individuals, and certainly the Dem party and Obama, recognize that abortion comes at a price, and it is frequently a high price to pay. They simply believe that countervailing interests are greater.

Your question is silly, as I am sure you know. It is akin to saying "why, if the church thinks children are a blessing, does it not encourage sex all the time?"

[exUte]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

So "health of the mother" is limited to her physical health? Or are you including emotional health here?

"I'm so angry that I got pregnant, it's giving me a headache". Is that what you would consider emotional health?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Where are you going with this? Nobody argues that abortion should be promoted. I think reasonable pro-choice individuals, and certainly the Dem party and Obama, recognize that abortion comes at a price, and it is frequently a high price to pay. They simply believe that countervailing interests are greater.

Your question is silly, as I am sure you know. It is akin to saying "why, if the church thinks children are a blessing, does it not encourage sex all the time?"

I'm sorry you don't think your kids are a blessing........assuming you were devious enought to trick someone into marrying you.

[BarbaraGordon]

Why do we care what the president thinks of abortion?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Where are you going with this? Nobody argues that abortion should be promoted. I think reasonable pro-choice individuals, and certainly the Dem party and Obama, recognize that abortion comes at a price, and it is frequently a high price to pay. They simply believe that countervailing interests are greater.

Your question is silly, as I am sure you know. It is akin to saying "why, if the church thinks children are a blessing, does it not encourage sex all the time?"

Of course abortion is promoted. For years if not decades, abstinence and adoption have been ridiculed by the Left--in particular the radical feminist movement--as viable alternatives. Legislation enacted merely to inform women on the option of adoption has been fought tooth and nail. Efforts to curtail abortion in any degree, such as late-term and partial-birth abortions, have been demonized and opposed.

The use of the term "rare" in the cliche "safe, legal, and rare" may be the largest lie in the Democrat platform.

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Why do we care what the president thinks of abortion?

Because abortion is no longer (if it ever was) a yes-we-have-it/no-we-don't Roe v. Wade decision.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Why do we care what the president thinks of abortion?

had on the morals of the youth in the US?

It is also an indicator of who he would nominate to the Supreme Court. A liberal, moderate or conservative that would not only tackle the abortion issue but also other issues in a liberal vs. conservative vein.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Again, I ask the question, if most Americans favor abortion, why does Obama want to make them rare? Abortion sounds like a great thing that should be promoted, not discouraged. Girls should not be punished with a baby.

"Public Views on Abortion Remain Sharply Divided

By contrast, abortion remains a divisive issue. Twenty-two percent believe that abortion should be legal under any circumstances, 62 percent believe that it should be legal only under certain circumstances, and 15 percent believe that it should be illegal in all circumstances. These percentages have remained largely unchanged for the past 25 years. "

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Tex

Because abortion is no longer (if it ever was) a yes-we-have-it/no-we-don't Roe v. Wade decision.

Originally Posted by exUte

had on the morals of the youth in the US?

It is also an indicator of who he would nominate to the Supreme Court. A liberal, moderate or conservative that would not only tackle the abortion issue but also other issues in a liberal vs. conservative vein.

The per-female-capita rate of abortion in this country has declined every year since 1989, with the steepest rates of decline during the double Dem tenure of Bill's first administration, and the rate over the last twelve years unchanged regardless of which party held the Oval Office or the legislative majority.

exUte, I got lost somewhere around "adulterous affair."