Why is disbelief a sin?

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I think if a person has had enough of the Cougarboard-esque nit picking of white shirts, stay-at-home-moms, and the first edition of Mormon Doctrine, and says "enough already" and bolts; I suspect a person like that never took the time to harbor a close relationship with the spirit.

I don't think Seattle is a person like this....

I don't fault people who struggle with some of the more difficult 'issues' of the church. It not only takes a little, but almost monumental faith to work through some subjects. I believe if one is unable to reconcile himself with these 'issues' the Lord will look on him in kindness in the end as he coddles each of us individually....

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

So somebody just doesn't buy the theology; in his gut it feels fake and his mind says it's illogical, derivative and contrived. He can't help it; it's the way he feels at a cellular level. Moreover, to add insult to injury (really the worst part of it), he finds the culture maximally vexing. To show you what I mean I cite you to the endless posts on Cougarboard about white shirts, testimony meeting pet peeves, holier than though stay at home mom pet peeves, mullah literalists, etc. And because the theology leaves him emotionally and intellectually cold and barren, and the culture is so grating, he finds himself shambling around in a fog of boredom and banality. He can't help it; it's just the way he IS.

So he says, no thanks, not to my liking. Life's too short.

And he goes to hell for this? I don't buy it.

Who says he's going to hell? It's a complex question. Our existence is predicated upon agency … in the preexistence we freely chose the path to eternal life as opposed to eternal torment and sorrow. That choice repeats itself through out mortality and will again present itself in the next life … and I have to believe for the remainder of our existence –forever!

This freedom to choose will not, and perhaps cannot be taken from us; unless of course WE ourselves choose to remove it from the equation. And isn't that the definition of hell?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

And that's all?

Thank you, born-again fussy.

I hope you didn't teach that on your mission.

Jesus said something about that-- how the two most important commandments were to love God and to love your neighbor, and everything else was an appendage to that.

I agree with Fusnik's statement, but in a different context. I think if you try to be a good person at the core, you will be saved AND you will be doing all that you can do to keep the commandments (though the two are not necessarily dependent upon each other).

I fully believe that somebody who honestly and truly evaluates the Church of Jesus Christ and cannot understand or believe what is being taught, but tries to live a good life anyway will be given his due reward. I would personally hope that the reward would be as much as any good Mormon would receive. After all, in THIS hypothetical situation, they obeyed the commandments that they had received to the best of their abilities.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hey SeattleUte,

I am assuming you are talking about yourself. A few points:

1) If you are a non-believer, why do you care what others think about sinning and hell?

2) Everything you listed on CB is grating to me as well. And I bet it is grating to many of us here. That is part of why we are here.

3) I would never dream of damning another person for lack of faith. Each of us has such vastly different experiences in life, I would never presume to judge how someone arrives at such an intensely personal decision.

For what it's worth, I have always enjoyed the CatBlue/SeattleUte posts. I hope you bear with us and stick around. In fact I often think to myself that if I ever were to become an apostate, I hope I would be a classy one like SeattleUte or Non Sequitur and not one of those bitter, angry souls you see posting all over the internet.

Cheers.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by homeboy

Hey SeattleUte,

I am assuming you are talking about yourself. A few points:

1) If you are a non-believer, why do you care what others think about sinning and hell?

2) Everything you listed on CB is grating to me as well. And I bet it is grating to many of us here. That is part of why we are here.

3) I would never dream of damning another person for lack of faith. Each of us has such vastly different experiences in life, I would never presume to judge how someone arrives at such an intensely personal decision.

For what it's worth, I have always enjoyed the CatBlue/SeattleUte posts. I hope you bear with us and stick around. In fact I often think to myself that if I ever were to become an apostate, I hope I would be a classy one like SeattleUte or Non Sequitur and not one of those bitter, angry souls you see posting all over the internet.

Cheers.

I appreciate the sentiments. Addressing issues of faith in a tasteful sensitive way from any perspective is always important. I enjoy exchanges with you all.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I think if a person has had enough of the Cougarboard-esque nit picking of white shirts, stay-at-home-moms, and the first edition of Mormon Doctrine, and says "enough already" and bolts; I suspect a person like that never took the time to harbor a close relationship with the spirit.
Jared

One man's meat is another man's poison, one man's "spirit" is another man's banality.

[realtall]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

One thing CB has taught me is there could be worse things than hell. Like spending eternity with some folks who seem to thing they're destined for heaven. The old addage really is true.

Folks who think that they're destined for 'heaven?' Come on Seattle, you know better than that. I haven't heard in talks or lessons or even individual opinions of church members that suggest that mormons are going to 'heaven' and the whole of the rest of humanity is not. I realize that you are just refering to a saying but in another post you refered to 'going to hell' as well. At the very least, that is a gross oversimplification. That is more like something that the born-agains, or maybe the Catholics believe. The LDS Church's doctrine has more to do with something called the 'Three Degrees of Glory' - not heaven & hell(per se). But you already knew that.

I suspect that with your addage you are refering more to some folks' self-righteousness. As far as that goes, I don't think that anyone here can argue that there are those types in every ward in the church(at least the ones in the US). They piss me off to no end. How dare they think that they are any more righteous than I am? Seriously though, do you really believe that all or most of the church is like that? I don't think that cb is that reliable of a sampling.


I do agree with you on one thing, though. Spending eternity with some of the characters on cb would be hell.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

This will probably be the most mullahish thing that anyone will ever hear me say: maybe.

I think it is a mistake to think that everyone else at church just levitates from one spiritual experience to the next. We all have doubts, doctrines we don't get and are perplexed by other members. This, however, is where faith bridges the gap and where we suck it up and push through, not where one is justified in throwing the towel in.

Now I believe that God will give all people the best reward they can handle and that most of the people in heaven will not be mormon (sheer numbers say this). BUT, as Michael Caine's character in "The Weather Man" says, "have you ever noticed that the hard thing and the right thing are usually the same."

I'm passing no judgement on your hypothetical man, just giving you my most well reasoned answer. Hope no offense is taken.

I loved that movie, by the way. I thought Caine's character was masterfully played and Cage had excellent timing. It was a very well-written movie. I loved Spritzel's line about Spritz's new salary being "quite an American accomplishment." Maybe others have used that line before, but I thought it was a very interesting way of looking at it. Great movie.

Tim