Racist family members

[Solon]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

All of you except SIEQ are full of it. There's a lot of racism among Mormons from the Korean War generation and back. Evan Mecham was not exceptional. There is less among younger generations but it is still prevalent. I come from a big Mormon family on both sides, and at family reunions, etc. you hear offhanded comments that embarrass and shame you. My family is very typical, I'm sure. Such people may not necessarily mean ill, often don't even realize stuff they say is racist. But they're racist all the same. Sometimes I hear comments and the speaker should know better and these are the comments that make my blood boil. I remember when I was at Georgetown an uncle (who holds a master's degree form BYU and is a wild eyed BYU football fan) used to badger me saying racist stuff about Patrick Ewing.

Most people in the older and probably the younger generations still believe blacks bear the mark of Caine for that matter. Why wouldn't they because no one has told them otherwise. Many white Mormons of course would more than arch their eyebrows if a close family member brought home an AA date. When I was a kid growing up in Sandy we learned an AA family would move in behind us, and there was hand wringing all over the neighborhood. Ultimately, I think the AA family was probably inundated with casseroles when they moved in. Still, they were victims of an insidious form of racism. They didn't stay long. We lived in a neighborhood with young Mormon families and most of those people are still alive.

For that matter, I've seen racism here every now and then among college educated elites.

I don't think the fact that Mormons don't have a monopoly on racism is a mitigating factor (despite Waters' view to the contrary) but I will add that the kind of racism I describe above is alive and well all over rural America, especially in the South, and also in the cities but to a lesser extent.

My parents and grandparents are/were all racist - to different extents, and it seems more pronounced among the females. My grandmother still calls Brazil Nuts "n*gger toes" and my mom once told me she would rather have her daughter marry a non-mormon white guy than an active LDS RM black man.

They don't think they're racists, but it's often there, uncomfortably just below the surface. I call them out when/if they say stuff and those topics don't seem to come up any more.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

All of you except SIEQ are full of it. There's a lot of racism among Mormons from the Korean War generation and back. Evan Mecham was not exceptional. There is less among younger generations but it is still prevalent. I come from a big Mormon family on both sides, and at family reunions, etc. you hear offhanded comments that embarrass and shame you. My family is very typical, I'm sure. Such people may not necessarily mean ill, often don't even realize stuff they say is racist. But they're racist all the same. Sometimes I hear comments and the speaker should know better and these are the comments that make my blood boil. I remember when I was at Georgetown an uncle (who holds a master's degree form BYU and is a wild eyed BYU football fan) used to badger me saying racist stuff about Patrick Ewing.

Most people in the older and probably the younger generations still believe blacks bear the mark of Caine for that matter. Why wouldn't they because no one has told them otherwise. Many white Mormons of course would more than arch their eyebrows if a close family member brought home an AA date. When I was a kid growing up in Sandy we learned an AA family would move in behind us, and there was hand wringing all over the neighborhood. Ultimately, I think the AA family was probably inundated with casseroles when they moved in. Still, they were victims of an insidious form of racism. They didn't stay long. We lived in a neighborhood with young Mormon families and most of those people are still alive.

For that matter, I've seen racism here every now and then among college educated elites.

I don't think the fact that Mormons don't have a monopoly on racism is a mitigating factor (despite Waters' view to the contrary) but I will add that the kind of racism I describe above is alive and well all over rural America, especially in the South, and also in the cities but to a lesser extent.

Of course we are all full of it. We don't all first check our SU "word definitions" before we answer a question. Your definition of what a "racist" is and what my definition is differ.

Therefor, from my view, my family had no racists in it. As you view the world they were all probably racists. None of them asked to be excommunicated.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Of course we are all full of it. We don't all first check our SU "word definitions" before we answer a question. Your definition of what a "racist" is and what my definition is differ.

Therefor, from my view, my family had no racists in it. As you view the world they were all probably racists. None of them asked to be excommunicated.

My definition of racism is the one that counts. FWIW, I don't think it's necessary to have your name removed from LDS records to be free of racism.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

My definition of racism is the one that counts. FWIW, I don't think it's necessary to have your name removed from LDS records to be free of racism.

I would be curious to see how expansive your definition is. Here is someone's history. Voted for democrats until Reagan. Got into heated arguments on numerous occasions arguing blacks need more equality than they were getting. Thought Martin Luther King was a great man despite his moral indescretions. Hired black's in management type positions at a time when it wasn't all that popular or required to do so.

Has used the "n" word in a joking connotation and thinks Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are jackasses. Believed McConkie's theory on fence sitting at that time or at least never disputed it in front of family. In your world, is this person a racist.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

My definition of racism is the one that counts.

Beautiful.

[Coach McGuirk]

My aunt doesn't think she is racist, but she continues to call my son a Negro no matter how many times we have told her not to. My son also has a speech disability called apraxia. She attributes this to his skin color and he just isn't bright. We no longer will go to family events that she will attend. We tried to deal with this nicely but to no avail.

[FarrahWaters]

My mother did not grow up Mormon, but she grew up in a culture which I believed fostered racism. She is Japanese, and this is what she thought (until fairly recently) about her fellow Asian race.

Koreans: cheap, no qualms about cheating, and dishonest in business dealings
Chinese: rude, and basically inferior to the Japanese

Since she has moved to the states, she also things that blacks are criminals, all Hispanics are poor, dirty, and uneducated, and Russians (there is a large immigrant population where she lives) are rude and not to be trusted. She does live in SW Washington, which is mostly white.

She came to one of my indoor soccer games last Christmas, and was appalled by all the Hispanics there. It was like "being in another country". When my brother pointed out that she wasn't exactly white, she just ignored him.

It's all very ironic, since for years she suffered from discrimination by her mother-in-law, who did not want her only son to marry a Japanese woman.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I would be curious to see how expansive your definition is. Here is someone's history. Voted for democrats until Reagan. Got into heated arguments on numerous occasions arguing blacks need more equality than they were getting. Thought Martin Luther King was a great man despite his moral indescretions. Hired black's in management type positions at a time when it wasn't all that popular or required to do so.

Has used the "n" word in a joking connotation and thinks Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are jackasses. Believed McConkie's theory on fence sitting at that time or at least never disputed it in front of family. In your world, is this person a racist.

I never said you were a racist but you're being mighty defensive.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

My dad is one of the kindest, nonjudgmental people I know. But he grew up on the Indian reservation, and once in a while, will really surprise me with some of his comments.

As Indy said, it's all about your interactions. It's easy for me, from my background, to sit back and call him racist. I'd be much more impressed with someone who grew up in the reservation and still emerged without racist attitudes.

I think without exception that all of the most racist people I have met (some white some black) developed their views not in a vacuum, but as a result of extensive interaction with the "other."

Spend any time on a rez and try not to develop the feeling that most Indians are lazy drunks. It isn't easy (most of the achievers have moved on from the rez by early adulthood). I think there are a lot of blacks who view white people through the prism of their interactions with white police. Again, easy to see how the prejudice develops.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I never said you were a racist but you're being mighty defensive.

What I am defensive about has nothing to do with race, but labeling. This is one of my personal obsessions. For instance, someone on CB noted that billboard signs in Vegas that show a lot of skin are pornographic. In my opinion that cheapens the label of pornography. I think calling someone who is against same sex marriage a homophobe, cheapens what a homophobe really is. Same with bigot and any of the other words thrown around.

IMHO, when they are used so loosely they lose their real meaning and import. Because people fear being called these names, they are very careful in a valid discussion or argument.

"That's racist, homophobic, bigotted, et al" ruins the discussion and puts someone immediately on the defensive trying to defend a catch all accusation.

By the way, you fit my definition of a f'en asshole.