Classic Amanpour

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

That's a debate we can have, Frank. The point is, there's no way America is in any way similar to Pol Pot's regime, yet that is exactly the parallel Amanpour wants you to draw.

I think there is room for both sides of this to be at leastpartially correct. Saying that American is equivalent to Pol Pot is silly. Really, it is dememaning and inaccurate and so hyperbolic as to remove all credibility.

OTOH, Pol Pot used waterboarding and now so do we. Think about that. In the same prison where they ripped flesh off with pliers they also used waterboarding. A survivor painting the abuses he suffered paints waterboarding. Are we Pol Pot? Not now and probabyl not ever, but the very fact that we would use the methods that Pol Pot used is what so many people here and abroad, supporters and detractors, find disappointing and menacing. We cannot blithely dismiss this issue by smugly asserting we are different and we are justified. If we do so, we risk some day jsutifying ourselves into being the same. That day is fortunately still far in the future, but I think we should try to avoid stepping on the path altogether.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I think Tex was pretty clear in pointing out that to compare rigorous torture using methods described to limited torture involving waterboarding is dishonest.

And he's right, regardless of your position on the use of waterboarding on terrorists.

Help me out here. What is the dishonesty? Where in the article did she equate the two?

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Help me out here. What is the dishonesty? Where in the article did she equate the two?

To be fair, CNN is blocked for me (don't ask me why - it's ridiculous), and I therefore haven't read the article.

I don't find it misleading to assume that someone who enumerates hideous things done in an obviously immoral way, and then points out that one of those things enumerated are being done elsewhere, is equating the two.


An example (albeit limited in scope) is to bring up all the immoral acts done by the FLDS in their temple, and then point out that LDS have temples too, in which they also do 'secret' stuff. Sure, you'd be accurate, but you'd also be 'leading the witness', so to speak, to believe the same things are happening in LDS temples.

At any rate, I have nothing else to add to this discussion.

[Frank Ryan]

Originally Posted by Spaz

To be fair, CNN is blocked for me (don't ask me why - it's ridiculous), and I therefore haven't read the article.

I don't find it misleading to assume that someone who enumerates hideous things done in an obviously immoral way, and then points out that one of those things enumerated are being done elsewhere, is equating the two.


An example (albeit limited in scope) is to bring up all the immoral acts done by the FLDS in their temple, and then point out that LDS have temples too, in which they also do 'secret' stuff. Sure, you'd be accurate, but you'd also be 'leading the witness', so to speak, to believe the same things are happening in LDS temples.

At any rate, I have nothing else to add to this discussion.

That isn't what I took from the article. She wasn't trying to say America is evil like Pol Pot.She sure as hell isn't saying we are as evil as Pol Pot. She pointed out that America engages in an activity that was common practice among that regime. Waterboarding is immoral.
Despite what Sean Hannity or Tex or Michael Savage say, pointing that out isn't saying America is evil.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Thank God for people like Amanpour who is not afraid to call evil what it is.

That's your problem Tex. When evil cloaks itself in the robes of righteousness, you cannot recognize it. You don't have the gift.

No one on the board is more of a mullah than Mike when he's trolling.

It's impressive.

Right up there with Gayle Ruzicka.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Frank Ryan

That isn't what I took from the article. She wasn't trying to say America is evil like Pol Pot.She sure as hell isn't saying we are as evil as Pol Pot. She pointed out that America engages in an activity that was common practice among that regime. Waterboarding is immoral.
Despite what Sean Hannity or Tex or Michael Savage say, pointing that out isn't saying America is evil.

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Help me out here. What is the dishonesty? Where in the article did she equate the two?

Oh, I think that's exactly what she was trying to do. This is the woman who suggested the US military was deliberately targeting journalists, particularly those unfriendly to the cause. I don't think there's any doubt she was drawing a moral equivalence.

It's like when Bill O'Reilly asks Jeanine Garofalo if “George W. Bush is more of a danger to this world than Saddam” and she responds, "Equal, in a different way." It's like when Ted Kennedy says after Abu Ghraib that Saddam's torture chambers have been re-opened under US management. It's like when Dick Durbin compares the military to Pol Pot, Nazis, and Soviet gulags.

Don't think for a moment these people believe that America is on the same moral ground as the worst regimes in the history of the world.

Originally Posted by creekster

I think there is room for both sides of this to be at leastpartially correct. Saying that American is equivalent to Pol Pot is silly. Really, it is dememaning and inaccurate and so hyperbolic as to remove all credibility.

OTOH, Pol Pot used waterboarding and now so do we. Think about that. In the same prison where they ripped flesh off with pliers they also used waterboarding. A survivor painting the abuses he suffered paints waterboarding. Are we Pol Pot? Not now and probabyl not ever, but the very fact that we would use the methods that Pol Pot used is what so many people here and abroad, supporters and detractors, find disappointing and menacing. We cannot blithely dismiss this issue by smugly asserting we are different and we are justified. If we do so, we risk some day jsutifying ourselves into being the same. That day is fortunately still far in the future, but I think we should try to avoid stepping on the path altogether.

Obviously yes, it should give us pause. But that's not the only consideration. And this poor torture victim, bless his soul, is not the only one who gets a word in edgewise. Opinions abound on these issues. We already have someone here on record saying sleep deprivation is worse than having a hole punched through your hand.

We can have (and will continue to have) a discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of waterboarding, but this pretense that by doing so America is on par with Pol Pot is unreservedly obtuse.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Frank Ryan

That isn't what I took from the article. She wasn't trying to say America is evil like Pol Pot.She sure as hell isn't saying we are as evil as Pol Pot. She pointed out that America engages in an activity that was common practice among that regime. Waterboarding is immoral.
Despite what Sean Hannity or Tex or Michael Savage say, pointing that out isn't saying America is evil.

If it's truly news being reported then what need is there for you or anyone to carefully parse what was said? It's not news being reported it is an editorial piece and the reason it is pointed out is to say America is evil.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by creekster

I think there is room for both sides of this to be at leastpartially correct. Saying that American is equivalent to Pol Pot is silly. Really, it is dememaning and inaccurate and so hyperbolic as to remove all credibility.

OTOH, Pol Pot used waterboarding and now so do we. Think about that. In the same prison where they ripped flesh off with pliers they also used waterboarding. A survivor painting the abuses he suffered paints waterboarding. Are we Pol Pot? Not now and probabyl not ever, but the very fact that we would use the methods that Pol Pot used is what so many people here and abroad, supporters and detractors, find disappointing and menacing. We cannot blithely dismiss this issue by smugly asserting we are different and we are justified. If we do so, we risk some day jsutifying ourselves into being the same. That day is fortunately still far in the future, but I think we should try to avoid stepping on the path altogether.

Agreed. And Tex was hugely blowing out of proportion what she was saying about the matter. She didn't say (or imply) that the US was just like Pol Pot.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Thank God for people like Amanpour who is not afraid to call evil what it is.

That's your problem Tex. When evil cloaks itself in the robes of righteousness, you cannot recognize it. You don't have the gift.

American's, do you favor?

Because that is exactly what happened. Remember the interview of the FBI agent who either did or witnessed waterboarding on high level terrorists (I believe it was done to 3........yes three)? He said he disapproved of the tactics but in the end, it saved the lives of Americans and US soldiers.

To that I say ....... booyah!

[exUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

If it's truly news being reported then what need is there for you or anyone to carefully parse what was said? It's not news being reported it is an editorial piece and the reason it is pointed out is to say America is evil.

innocent Americans to be slaughtered as a result of not waterboarding. Did any of the terrorists (a total of 3) die. But it certainly scared the crap .... err.... plans out of them.

Like I said...........booyah!

We're in a friggin war. And you think the terrorists who capture our soldiers give a rats 'a' what we do to them? They will continue to behead, shove hot pokers up the rectums of their victims, etc regardless of whether we waterboard some of them.

C'mon. Get a grip on reality. This is not an academic exercise we are involved in.