Brian and Fus's theory on God commanding Adam and Eve not to judge

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

You take issue with the word of God, not with me.

God said it was 'very good,' God said that he created man/woman in his likeness, it's now to you to explain that God isn't saying man is whole, complete, perfect as is, it's not on me.

I don't take issue with the scripture, just your spin on it. Being very good for a specific purpose is a far cry from perfection. You've dodged this every time it's mentioned.

You cannot find any statement where God said Man is complete or flawless.

God said basically, Man fits our purpose, is good. How you warp the language is amazing.

Originally Posted by fusnik11

So what is Jesus teaching us? I am open for learning opportunities.

My interpretation reads like this:

a. God says man is complete, whole, perfect

Where do you get that? This is your first quantum leap. Show me, God says man is flawless or complete. If so, why would God be instructing Man to become Perfect, or complete even as Christ were complete?

Originally Posted by fusnik11

b. God says man is in his likeness, in other words: perfect, all knowing, etc

Another quantum leap.

Now I'm aware of theories out there pertaining to that, but that is not the first meaning of the language. You seem to mix and match several layers at once.

Originally Posted by fusnik11

c. God says don't take of the free of knowledge - I interpret he is telling us not to judge items that are good as is. God already made the judgement when he endorsed our creation, it's not our jobs to judge an already judged, perfected, whole entity.

We are instructed that if we become self-aware, we will no longer be innocent, but will be responsible for our actions. In the Garden, before Man becomes self-aware, he is not responsible and cannot sin as it were.

Eating of knowledge makes one self-aware, once self-aware, one is responsible.

Originally Posted by fusnik11

d. Jesus comes because man can't help himself and starts judging, tells us three things, be perfect, love God, love your neighbor - I interpret this as another commission not to judge, simply to love all

I can see no textual basis for this interpretation. We must discern actions and the counsel of persons, otherwise we remain ignorant. In fact, we must judge, but we may make not eternal judgment as to the salvation of another man.

Originally Posted by fusnik11

So not it is our duty to:

Be perfect, complete, whole and we obtain this by avoiding judgements and loving God and neighbor.

Are there evil things in this world? Yes there are, are we told to still love this person? Yes we are.

No basis in scripture or any interpretation for that construction. It makes absolutely no sense.

[livecoug]

Fus, it sounds like you already think we are Gods

you say we are perfect and in God's image, so why do we need this mortal probation if we are already Gods?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by livecoug

Fus, it sounds like you already think we are Gods

you say we are perfect and in God's image, so why do we need this mortal probation if we are already Gods?

Wait, fus, answer my question about sin first. I've asked it to you three times now and you ignored it each time.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by livecoug

Fus, it sounds like you already think we are Gods

you say we are perfect and in God's image, so why do we need this mortal probation if we are already Gods?

We are God's that's the long and short of it. Furthermore you were told exactly that when you went through the temple.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Wait, fus, answer my question about sin first. I've asked it to you three times now and you ignored it each time.

Jay I really don't know. I know there are actions, thoughts, feelings, that adversely hurt other people, that their are things people do that are absolutely deplorable, how God views those things I know not. I know we were given a Savior and his role is principle in our current probation, how this extends to our glory I do not fully understand.

As for the Skousen book, I get not my opinion/view from his book as I have yet to read it completely and knew not that he contends that man is not able to sin.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't take issue with the scripture, just your spin on it. Being very good for a specific purpose is a far cry from perfection. You've dodged this every time it's mentioned.

You cannot find any statement where God said Man is complete or flawless.

Yes I can, I showed you a scripture, revealed in the last day outside the influence of Greek, Latin, Hebrew, that shows that man is created in the likeness of God.

To you, what does likeness mean?

To anyone with a dictionary it means:

'The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance.'

What is the state, quality and fact of the being that is God? Perfection, wholeness, all knowing, all powerful, kindness, eternal.

I need not address your further takes as they are based on a flawed point of view.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Jay I really don't know. I know there are actions, thoughts, feelings, that adversely hurt other people, that their are things people do that are absolutely deplorable, how God views those things I know not. I know we were given a Savior and his role is principle in our current probation, how this extends to our glory I do not fully understand.

As for the Skousen book, I get not my opinion/view from his book as I have yet to read it completely and knew not that he contends that man is not able to sin.

Thanks. Based on that answer, I'd say you're not a Mormon and not even a Christian. But I respect your right to your beliefs. And they are interesting.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

We are God's that's the long and short of it. Furthermore you were told exactly that when you went through the temple.

Dude, you simply are not paying attention. You really need to stick to the fundamentals, fusnik. You've gotten so far off the beaten path you don't appear to know which way is up, doctrinally speaking. Line upon line and so forth.

You do yourself no favors going into wild tangential lines of thought.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Thanks. Based on that answer, I'd say you're not a Mormon and not even a Christian. But I respect your right to your beliefs. And they are interesting.

Wow, nice leap.

If I espouse the ideal that we are to be perfect, to love God, and to love our neighbor, does that not make one a Chrisitan? Should we not as 'mormons' strive this type of ideal in our life?

Without Christ we are unable to obtain perfection, but with him, we are able to obtain it in this probation.

Jay, one scripture about sin:

Isaiah 45:7-8

7 That they may know from the rising sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the Lord , and there is none else.

8 I form the light, and create the darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Yes I can, I showed you a scripture, revealed in the last day outside the influence of Greek, Latin, Hebrew, that shows that man is created in the likeness of God.

To you, what does likeness mean?

To anyone with a dictionary it means:

'The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance.'

What is the state, quality and fact of the being that is God? Perfection, wholeness, all knowing, all powerful, kindness, eternal.

I need not address your further takes as they are based on a flawed point of view.

The words "state, quality and fact" don't refer to the original, but to the facsimile. IOW, it is the FACT that man is like God that means he is in God's likeness. You are putting the definiton on its head. Moreover, the defintion inculdes the term 'resembalnce', which I think is the concept we intutively associate with the word likeness. Do we, as Gods in embryo, resemble God? Of course. Does that mean that we necessarily have the same knowledge, wisdom and power at the present time? Of course not.

My teenage son looks just like me. He sounds like me, he has many of my mannerisms and he has (sadly) my sense of humor. He resembles me very much. Does that mena he is supernaturally imbued with all of my knowledge or expeirence or other characterisitics? Of course not. Everyone might agree that he is in my likeness, and I would agree that his creation was good, and he certainbly has the ptential to exceed me in all respects, but no one would agree that we are precsiley the same with all of the same chracteristics.

I have been reading this thread waiting for the punchline or the denouement, yet it seems there really is no there there, if you know what I mean.