Does God change what he will do

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

No. I'm saying one cannot presume God behaves a certain way, based simply on how we behave.

You are saying there is no nexus between the two at all?

What happened to the whole "I the Lord am bound when ye do what i say?"

Or is that just jibba jabba?

I have lived my life as a member under the very specific presumption that if i do certain things and abstain from others, I will be blessed, my family will be blessed, etc... Are you saying this is wrong? I am not suggesting that i get everything I want and experience no pain and suffering, but it seems that you are saying we cannot presume at all. Am i mis-reading?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

When you say "we cannot think of God, his will, and his plans, like we think of our own", are you saying that those things are unknowable, incomprehensible, or simply different? The distinction is important, because if they are unknowable or incomprehensible, then how can people be presumptuous enough to dogmatically expound upon them?

This is an excellent point. If we can't know the unknowable and we can't predict how God behaves based upon how we behave, we are at a loss to make any predictions how God behaves.

However, if we believe there is some relationship between how men behave with that how God behaves, and we take the best behavior of men and relate it to him, we might catch a glimpse of his potential outlook.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

You are saying there is no nexus between the two at all?

What happened to the whole "I the Lord am bound when ye do what i say?"

Or is that just jibba jabba?

I have lived my life as a member under the very specific presumption that if i do certain things and abstain from others, I will be blessed, my family will be blessed, etc... Are you saying this is wrong? I am not suggesting that i get everything I want and experience no pain and suffering, but it seems that you are saying we cannot presume at all. Am i mis-reading?

Doesn't it turn on your definition of "blessing"?

Isn't it a blessing to know the mind of God, even if you can't change it? Isn't it a blessing to be appreciative for what you already have without wanting more?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Because we ask?

My personal belief is such.

The asking is the demonstration of faith. We are told to ask first, then we will receive. In that scripture is the implication that there is a relationship between what we request and what we receive and when we receive it. The timing and substance of those blessings is another issue, altogether.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Doesn't it turn on your definition of "blessing"?

Isn't it a blessing to know the mind of God, even if you can't change it? Isn't it a blessing to be appreciative for what you already have without wanting more?

My ways are not your ways, neither are your way my ways, for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways.

I think God does a lot of things differently than we do. For instance, I wouldn't doubt he thinks rules established by men and then treated as being a test of morality is rather silly.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

You are saying there is no nexus between the two at all?

What happened to the whole "I the Lord am bound when ye do what i say?"

Or is that just jibba jabba?

I have lived my life as a member under the very specific presumption that if i do certain things and abstain from others, I will be blessed, my family will be blessed, etc... Are you saying this is wrong? I am not suggesting that i get everything I want and experience no pain and suffering, but it seems that you are saying we cannot presume at all. Am i mis-reading?

I guess I'm not making myself clear. Are there ways that we behave like God, and vice versa? Yes. We are his creations and are intended to be his heirs. It's both natural and doctrinal that we are like him.

Has he told us about himself? Yes. Do we understand exactly what it all means? No. Can you truly comprehend eternity? Immortality? Omnipotence? But we know these are his attributes, and we trust his word.

The thing I'm disputing is the fallacious thinking: "Given a certain situation, I would react thus-and-so. Therefore, so would God." We see this kind of thinking all the time with the question, "Why does God permit so much suffering in the world?" It's an incorrect question that betrays a bad correllation between how we might act, versus how he does. Need I quote Isaiah 55:8-9?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Doesn't it turn on your definition of "blessing"?

Isn't it a blessing to know the mind of God, even if you can't change it? Isn't it a blessing to be appreciative for what you already have without wanting more?

Definition of blessing? I suppose that is a fair point.

Even so, and while yours are very poignant examples of blessings, I dont feel that they are all-inclusive examples.

The Lord has not precluded us from receiving more temporal blessings, such as employment, wealth, status (for righteous purposes), education, etc..

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

I guess I'm not making myself clear. Are there ways that we behave like God, and vice versa? Yes. We are his creations and are intended to be his heirs. It's both natural and doctrinal that we are like him.

Has he told us about himself? Yes. Do we understand exactly what it all means? No. Can you truly comprehend eternity? Immortality? Omnipotence? But we know these are his attributes, and we trust his word.

The thing I'm disputing is the fallacious thinking: "Given a certain situation, I would react thus-and-so. Therefore, so would God." We see this kind of thinking all the time with the question, "Why does God permit so much suffering in the world?" It's an incorrect question that betrays a bad correllation between how we might act, versus how he does. Need I quote Isaiah 55:8-9?

So to the original question, do our prayers affect at all, the will of the Lord for us? I am still unclear as to how your response relates. I am not disagreeing with your response, btw.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

So to the original question, do our prayers affect at all, the will of the Lord for us? I am still unclear as to how your response relates. I am not disagreeing with your response, btw.

I think it's a bad question. I think it misunderstands how God works. It's like the question of foreordination/predestination: "Doesn't God knowing the outcome revoke the agency of man?"

No, it doesn't. But it's hard to accept cognitively. I feel the same way about prayers.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Tex

I think it's a bad question. I think it misunderstands how God works. It's like the question of foreordination/predestination: "Doesn't God knowing the outcome revoke the agency of man?"

No, it doesn't. But it's hard to accept cognitively. I feel the same way about prayers.

Do you really think God knows the outcome of everything, everything? I don't and I don't think that lessens him which is what I think some people fear if they say that.