11-02-2007, 05:23 PM | #11 | |
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you are saying "Bin Ladan" or any one else who has done such a crime and a true believer 's forgiveness isnot probably going to make him change his intention/attitude/belief ..is still deserved to recieve pardon? or you are saying that a true believer ,is supposed to bestow forgiveness just becuase he is God's mirror on earth?? i honestly would like to judge mormons and christians by the offering standards as i hope you would care to do the same.
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11-02-2007, 05:33 PM | #12 | |
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"Bestow a pardon". This language is not religious, but legalistic in our idiom. Thus, I'm uncertain as to your message. And because your world operates differently than ours, it is difficult for you to understand the distinctions. Religious authority has no legal authority. President Bush can bestow a pardon, but our church leaders cannot. As I understand the ayatollah system in your country, religious and legal authority are one and the same. Thus it must be difficult to distinguish between man's law and the law of religion. Thus, the land can impose its punishment and the religious people judge a man NOT in their hearts. Does this make any sense? It might not to me, if I lived where you reside.
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11-02-2007, 09:48 PM | #13 | |||
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as side note ..many claim ..president Bush middle east policy ,and particularly iraq war is a preface of what he envisions as his religious beliefs. turning to the topic ..islam has tremendous teachings which endorse remittal and remission in day to day lives. we have quite alot anecdotal evidences of how forgiving muslims are when it comes to the personal conflicts/attack ...like in murder case ..the parents of the murdered would pardon the murderer ( engaged in a street fight or so ) in terms of divine forgiveness in a hope to recieve mercy from Allah, as we are promised to. and there arenot even rare ,they just dont catch your cameras for some reasons!!!!!???? Quote:
so becuase we believe that God ,the creator has the entire knowledge of all three parts,(while the human possess almost no knowlege in these realms) we cannot neglect his role in the law which governs on human. Quote:
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I'm smart and I know it. Last edited by Mindfulcoug; 11-02-2007 at 09:56 PM. |
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11-02-2007, 10:11 PM | #14 |
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I did not understand your post.
In our society, it is easy to disconnect sections, belief from society. We can write laws independent of our laws. If I were to write a law, I would do so independent of my personal religious beliefs, and do mix the two.
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11-02-2007, 10:39 PM | #15 | |
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i think i need to learn from you ,how you could neglect your beliefs (something you believe its true )..and with ignoring your beliefs ,what might have been replaced ? knowledge?? knowledge for what ? for learning the truth ? but you already knew the truth via your belief. you might argue that you arenot sure about the truth you are believing in though.
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11-02-2007, 10:56 PM | #16 |
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in an attempt to free the hijacked thread here comes a very authentic story of prophet mohammad's (PBUH) life ,who is supposed to be followed by muslims.
This story is about the early days of his prophetic mission in Mecca, where he was disliked by some people mostly idolaters ,who were trying to make him awfully embarrassed and miserable to leave his mission. there was a man who would put lots of trash on prophet's way and hide in a place keep waiting to catch him up ,then throw garbage out to him almost everyday...to the point that prophet would have to take time to get clean or back home to change. but once prophet noticed that the guy was missing for two or three days.. so he got to ask around to learn about the guy ..then he came to know that he was ill , resting at home.. prophet mohammad asked about where he lived ...then he made his way to the guy's house ... when he arrived ,the guy was speechless ,totally frightened, couldnot find the reason why prophet would want to come to visite him..then prophet smiled at him ..prayed for him to get well and left.
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11-03-2007, 12:19 AM | #17 | |
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When one writes laws, one does it in relationship to laws already existing, and does not look to one's beliefs. One then looks to the scenarios creating the need for new law, and takes what the legislative intent is. For the most part, most law has NOTHING to do with truth. It is independent of truth. A law regulating speed is not about truth. Engineers have studies which dictate safe speeds for certain types of routes. No truth here, just empirical observation. Man's Law and truth are often not related.
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11-03-2007, 07:21 PM | #18 | |
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You mentioned about speeding on the road ...good example..why a driver needs to mind his safty ?? or care about others safty and comfort ?? to live more and better? to do what?? to degenerate and become part of the soil after 100 years?? or to be healthy safe person to find out his way toward the truth ?? basically whats the main reason for empirical approaches ?? if in a society, where every individual is supposed to seek for the truth ,how come the laws (which is produced and enforced to manage individula's lives) would have nothing to do with the truth? as you portray your law system..it seems there is NO place for justice and moral values ,becuase they both acquire thier meaning under the light of the truth.
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11-03-2007, 09:32 PM | #19 | |
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In our country, there is a clear separation between religion and government. Occasionally a religiously minded group may express itself politically, but that is not the norm. That doesn't mean there is no intersection, but it is minimal. People may advocate for laws based on personal beliefs, but our society by and large does not legislate to comply with religious beliefs. Speeding and traffic laws are enabling constraints, meaning they are invoked so that people can orderly travel along the roads to enable the motorists. They are constraining because they limit the drivers' options, but enabling because without them chaos would result. Our law is not about truth but about relative order and protection of the public. There is a place for truth in the lives of each individual. We do not believe governmental discourse is the place for discussion of eternal truth. Governmental discourse is about power and money.
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 11-03-2007 at 09:36 PM. |
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11-04-2007, 07:57 PM | #20 | |
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however at each epoch ,there would be some completely new issues to deal with by law makers. with referring to your description about the secular government ..i think it might be fair to reach out to this conclusion that , "you wouldnot mind to have some faithless/unprincipled law makers and unscrupulous law executors who would oftenly lie to people and mess up with thier lives, as long as they bring you money and power ". Thanks for guiding me welcome the concept.
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