As the temple recommend renewal date draws nigh....

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

If you fear speaking to your judge in Israel about your spiritual progression, then there is a huge problem. You seem to live in an existence that promotes conformity over honest dialogue. No thanks.

How can we trust our bishop, if they do not understand the difficulties?

There are some bishops with whom I would have frank discussions and some with whom I would only promote conformity.

Whether the call of a bishop is inspired or merely spiritually confirmed is beyond my level of understanding. That doesn't mean all they do is inspired.

[Clark Addison]

I just got my recommend renewed last week. Speaking only for myself, it would not have occured to me to mention something like that.

Although I will say that CG influenced my answers a bit. Remembering how much it annoyed BFM when someone answered the honesty question "I try", I spent some time beforehand pondering on my honesty, and during the interview, answered with a simple "yes".

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Archaea

How can we trust our bishop, if they do not understand the difficulties?

There are some bishops with whom I would have frank discussions and some with whom I would only promote conformity.

Whether the call of a bishop is inspired or merely spiritually confirmed is beyond my level of understanding. That doesn't mean all they do is inspired.

What do I have to fear with God if I have been honest with my my Bishop? My conscience is clean. Why should I fear church discipline with a clean conscience?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

What do I have to fear with God if I have been honest with my my Bishop? My conscience is clean. Why should I fear church discipline with a clean conscience?

More and more I see the bishop as an administrator, with good intentions, who fulfills the administrative functions the organization needs. They also give general moral counsel to the youth and widows.

Why should an adult feel a need to counsel with somebody of equal or perhaps lesser experience, if the person has been active administratively but not intellectually or theologically?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Archaea

More and more I see the bishop as an administrator, with good intentions, who fulfills the administrative functions the organization needs. They also give general moral counsel to the youth and widows.

Why should an adult feel a need to counsel with somebody of equal or perhaps lesser experience, if the person has been active administratively but not intellectually or theologically?

The bishop can be and frequently is much more, IMO. An adult is nto obligated to talk to the bishop, but I don't think harm typically comes from it.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Archaea

More and more I see the bishop as an administrator, with good intentions, who fulfills the administrative functions the organization needs. They also give general moral counsel to the youth and widows.

Why should an adult feel a need to counsel with somebody of equal or perhaps lesser experience, if the person has been active administratively but not intellectually or theologically?

I don't think I would seek out the bishop for counsel on how I should vote in November, but if in the course of our meeting the subject arises, I would discuss how I feel openly. If that lands me some church discipline then so be it. (I doubt that it would though.)

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

More and more I see the bishop as an administrator, with good intentions, who fulfills the administrative functions the organization needs. They also give general moral counsel to the youth and widows.

Why should an adult feel a need to counsel with somebody of equal or perhaps lesser experience, if the person has been active administratively but not intellectually or theologically?

I totally agree. 90% of Bishops aren't interested in dealing thoughtfully with any complex, philosophical nuances related to Church policy or doctrine.

Honestly, the Bishops I know personally don't want to deal with intellectual angst from the CG crowd over Church history or current social policies. They would rather you just figure out on your own whether or not and in what manner you are going to conform. If you don't mention to your Bishop during your Temple Recommend interview that you have a concern about the literal translational accuracy of the Book of Abraham facsimiles then you are doing your Bishop a huge favor. In all likelihood he has no interest or ability in counseling you about a concern like that.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

How can we trust our bishop, if they do not understand the difficulties?

There are some bishops with whom I would have frank discussions and some with whom I would only promote conformity.

Whether the call of a bishop is inspired or merely spiritually confirmed is beyond my level of understanding. That doesn't mean all they do is inspired.

Fair point. I don't pretend that Bishops, or any of us, is infallible, by any stretch.

I am specifically discussing a TR interview and this particular Prop 8 issue. I really think that there should be nothing to fear as it pertains to this whole issue. Which is why I already spoke to my Bishop. As I stated before, it barely registered with him. He literally said, "ok," and that was it. It hasn't been discussed again since.

I think it is something I may bring up in my next interview.....it would be interesting to hear who my SP interprets that question. I personally do not feel like I sympathize with apostate groups, but who knows? Is CG an apostate group? Is planned parenthood an apostate group? what if I go to an ERA rally? The Church has spoken out about airline de-regulation back in the 80s or late 70s, I think.....what if I don't agree about airline de-regulation?

My point to T Blue is that I don't like to live my life in fear of asking questions. This whole Prop 8 conundrum is, for me, a huge question. T Blue seems to be suggesting that I would be better served keeping my mouth shut (everyone would be better served if I kept my mouth shut, frankly), but I tend to think that my best spiritual interests may be served by asking for clarification. Not sure what I will do yet, but I have been giving it some thought.

As a complete aside, I think Bishops can be inspired on any topic given the right circumstances...it is up to the individual to ultimately decide whether to heed counsel or whether the counsel feels "right," and sometimes it likely isnt.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Relax. Church discipline is for actions, not thoughts. Wasn't that quote in a church press release recently?

Heaven help us if start getting disciplined for our thoughts.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Relax. Church discipline is for actions, not thoughts. Wasn't that quote in a church press release recently?

Heaven help us if start getting disciplined for our thoughts.

Sympathy is an emotion, not always an action.

I had never considered that question until today. You can make an argument that those who do not support Prop 8 sympathize with groups who are in contrast to the teachings of the Church.

I dont necessarily agree with it, but it isnt outlandish.