Tex Mess and Expansion

[JJS]

Lets say the Big-10 goes to 14 teams. Then the Pac-10 definitely goes to at least 12. Maybe you can keep 12 team conferences happy, but look for the SEC or Big-12 to expand as well. If the PAC-10 goes to 12, who are the candidates? Colorado, Utah and...? If Colorado leaves, the Big 12 has to pick up someone, who would it be? Most likely not BYU. In this case I agree, BYU probably gets left behind. But If the Big 10 goes to 16 teams, then things get interesting. The other big conferences will have to go to 14 or 16 teams. If that's the case, I don't see how the PAC-10 or the Big-12 could afford not to take BYU. The PAC-10 needs at least 4 teams in this scenario. Who are they? Colorado, Utah... Fresno? UNLV? San Jose? San Diego State? Boise State? Reno? None of these are great pickups. You could make the case for the Las Vegas or San Diego media markets, but I think the PAC-10 already has California's media markets.

The Big 12 would be even more desperate. If they lost Colorado, that means they need at least 3 teams. Who do you take? CSU? Air force? New Mexico? Tulsa? Texas teams (SMU, TCU, Rice, Houston)?

In either of these scenarios BYU is more attractive than the others right? Maybe someone who lives in the Midwest has a better perspective on what the Big-12 would do. But I think BYU has tangibles that these other programs don't (Stadium, attendance, TV market beyond Utah, tradition, success). Am I in left field here?

[MikeWaters]

BYU's best (and arguably only) hope is that the Big 12 implodes and is forced to take BYU.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

BYU's best (and arguably only) hope is that the Big 12 implodes and is forced to take BYU.

BYU's challenges with the B12 are: 1) same bias as kept them from being attractive to the Pac 10 (the people who will be deciding share some characteristics in terms of philosophy and disposition regardless of location), 2) B12 has more options than the Pac 10, 3) BYU being on the west side of the mountains is a long ways geographically and culturally from the B12 (may be a poor fit for same reasons Colorado appears to be). I agree the B12 needs to take some big hits for BYU to go there.

It's ineresting that rumors of Utah to the Pac 10 seem to be ubiquitious; if it's happening it's the worst kept secret in sports. But you hear virtually nothing about BYU to the B12.

BYU may have to just suck it up and realize convictions can be costly.

Waters, do you ever regret not going to Texas instead of BYU? Hell, you probably could have gone to Stanford. (Don't answer if it's too personal or painful to answer.)

[MikeWaters]

I didn't even consider applying to Texas.

The Big 12 doesn't have a lot of options either for expansion. East and West Coasts are too far away. Schools in the region are either in small markets, or are in big markets that are already covered by current schools. That's why adding another university in Texas doesn't make sense to the Big 12 (TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, UTEP). Fact is, the SLC/Utah market is one of the largest available to the Big 12.

Personally I hope that Utah gets an invitation to the Pac 10, and BYU does not. And then Mormon state legislators block it. Mainly, I want this to happen for the entertainment factor. I can hear the howling already.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I didn't even consider applying to Texas.

The Big 12 doesn't have a lot of options either for expansion. East and West Coasts are too far away. Schools in the region are either in small markets, or are in big markets that are already covered by current schools. That's why adding another university in Texas doesn't make sense to the Big 12 (TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, UTEP). Fact is, the SLC/Utah market is one of the largest available to the Big 12.

Personally I hope that Utah gets an invitation to the Pac 10, and BYU does not. And then Mormon state legislators block it. Mainly, I want this to happen for the entertainment factor. I can hear the howling already.

lol yeah right. The ACLU would have a field day. So would I. What an entertaining smack down it would be. But ignorant Utah legislators have never seen a potential entangelment of church and state that didn't entice them. This whole event is proving all my prophesies. We'll see yet how badly the LDS church wishes it could be a theorcracy. Too bad, LDS Church!!! You were born in the wrong country.

[MikeWaters]

there is no issue for the ACLU to weigh in on here.

Politicians in Texas were instrumental in deciding the makeup of the Big 12, by holding the purse strings.

Same thing could happen in Utah.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

lol yeah right. The ACLU would have a field day. So would I. What an entertaining smack down it would be. But ignorant Utah legislators have never seen a potential entangelment of church and state that didn't entice them. This whole event is proving all my prophesies. We'll see yet how badly the LDS church wishes it could be a theorcracy. Too bad, LDS Church!!! You were born in the wrong country.

I highly doubt the Church would encourage Utah legislators to block the move. They would not welcome the controversy. They are on a pick and choose your battle status right now. BYU playing in a bigger conference hardly has repercussions on the member's salvation. Interestingly though, the move to the PAC-10 would condemn UofU athletics to a life of mediocrity... albeit with a lot more money.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by JJS

I highly doubt the Church would encourage Utah legislators to block the move. They would not welcome the controversy. They are on a pick and choose your battle status right now. BYU playing in a bigger conference hardly has repercussions on the member's salvation. Interestingly though, the move to the PAC-10 would condemn UofU athletics to a life of mediocrity... albeit with a lot more money.

I would hope the LDS Church learned from the Prop. 8 fiasco if I were you. What a PR catastrophe for the LDS Church it would be. Anyone who cares about BYU or LDS shouldn't want that to happen.

The lesson of the Pac 10 showing no interest in BYU (rumor has it the Cal Schools woud sooner commit sepuku as be associated with BYU) is that BYU/the LDS Church is widely disliked, especially BYU (though its inhabitants are no doubt generally the most enlightened in the LDS Church). Now, before you and Waters or whoever gets on your "Bigot" crying trampoline, note that stuff like historical LDS racism (including BYU's role as a platform for racist sayings from LDS leaders) , rampant creationism among BYU faculty, FARMS, prop. 8, overall weak academics except in the undergrad classrooom, and the action Waters is proposing, are volitional acts. BYU/LDS Church should reflect why it's so widely disliked (reflection has historically not been a strong suit, has it).

Regardless, factually, there's a huge difference between BYU and the Baylor situation. Obviously, Texas is the most influential school in the Big 12. There isn't even an apt analogy in the Pac 10--no school is so dominant in all sports and academically like Texas is. So, I suppose that if Utah were the Texas of the Pac 10, and had other options like the Big 12 or the Big 10, Utah legislators might have enough leverage to tell Stanford, Cal and UCLA, "admit BYU or Utah is gone." But Utah isn't Texas.

Now, as for the ACLU's possible interest in the legislature blocking Utah (apparently out of spite to prevent it getting a leg up on BYU), On what conceivable basis would LDS lawmakers try to block admission of Utah to the Pac 10 other than using the state aparatus to advance a religion?

[MikeWaters]

There is no way the church would move to block Utah to the Pac 10. They have larger concerns.

I could see rank and file Utahns, and their representatives, believing that the separation between Utah and BYU would be detrimental to the interests of the state and its citizens, thus cutting funding.

Why? One very clear answer: "it's bad for Utah."

Trust me, BYU fans will get their pound of flesh, one way or another.