A MORE interesting discussion about FLDS

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

It'd be easier to regulate if the state legalized polygamy, but required a minimum age of 21.

you're saying the minimum age for a woman to have sex with an adult man is 21?

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I would say, meaning it is an opinion, that if you have been indoctrinated into a belief system that tells you everything a man says comes from God, you in essence have been forced.

Are Mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple, obey the WoW, etc.? By your definition I'd say yes.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I agree, to an extent. Taking this argument at face value and applying it to myself, all mormons have been 'forced' to not smoke. And yet, I don't feel as though that's the case.

Many, many mormons grow up in an environment that allows for contemplating what the brethern say and making up their own minds. There are some I believe who welcome the coercive culture, but I think it only exists amongst a few in the church.

Unfortunately for the FLDS, it is a lot if not that vast majority that have fallen into the "anything said comes from God" belief.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you're saying the minimum age for a woman to have sex with an adult man is 21?

Fine. Change it to 18. I still think they should legalize polygamy so that they can regulate things better. But the polygamists might be discouraged from getting legally married because they wouldn't be able to commit welfare fraud anymore.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Are Mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple, obey the WoW, etc.? By your definition I'd say yes.

There are mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple and obey the WOW. I would say they are by far the minority. The belief that you have to do everything spoken by the Prophet or your life is doomed is not a widely held by members of the church, IMHO.

It is one thing society should recognize as a major diff. between us and the FLDS.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

13 y.o. girl brainwashed into marriage=abuse. Kids that young shouldn't ever be getting married. The fact that she has been groomed for it her entire life changes nothing.

Same for the 17 y.o. The abuse is amplified by the fact that these are polygamous marriages.

If these girls really want to live polygamy, make them wait till age 21. What's the harm in that?

It'd be easier to regulate if the state legalized polygamy, but required a minimum age of 21.

Thank you. For the record, I don't disagree with anything here in particular.


I simply struggle with the concept of religious brainwashing. Looking back on my own life, at 13 I feel like I was coerced into my beliefs. At 16, I no longer did - I'd had my confirmation of the truth and believed without coercion. Having the understanding that my parents were right, the 'brainwashing' of my earlier life changed to 'teaching'.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Religion, isolation, young ages--it's toxic stew.

Telling a 13 year old girl to get married is wrong, even if the girl agrees, because in that environment it is certainly coercion.

I would be A LOT more comfortable if the minimum age of marriage in FLDS was 18. I'm very uncomfortable at 16, even if it legal.

Btw, if a religious leader told me that my young daughter had to marry some guy, I would break his jaw. So I wouldn't do well in that system.

The isolation bothers me more than anything else.

Correction - the isolation is the back-breaker, making me feel something untoward is happening in regards to the other issues.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Religion, isolation, young ages--it's toxic stew.

Telling a 13 year old girl to get married is wrong, even if the girl agrees, because in that environment it is certainly coercion.

I would be A LOT more comfortable if the minimum age of marriage in FLDS was 18. I'm very uncomfortable at 16, even if it legal.

Btw, if a religious leader told me that my young daughter had to marry some guy, I would break his jaw. So I wouldn't do well in that system.

Unlike the FLDS, you would be allowed to say that openly without being sanctioned by the church, IMHO.

Of course maybe Tex and Indy could enlighten us on whether I am right or not in thinking this.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Many, many mormons grow up in an environment that allows for contemplating what the brethern say and making up their own minds. There are some I believe who welcome the coercive culture, but I think it only exists amongst a few in the church.

Unfortunately for the FLDS, it is a lot if not that vast majority that have fallen into the "anything said comes from God" belief.

That would, certainly, make a difference. I'm not familiar enough with the FLDS to know this as fact...

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

There are mormon children forced to go on missions, marry in the temple and obey the WOW. I would say they are by far the minority. The belief that you have to do everything spoken by the Prophet or your life is doomed is not a widely held by members of the church, IMHO.

It is one thing society should recognize as a major diff. between us and the FLDS.

So then I guess the real question is what amounts to "indoctrination" vs. "teaching" and where does agency fit in. Not an easy question to answer.