On KW

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by UteStar

There is a lot of Bronco love and it may be warranted...but it will be interesting to see how Bronco handles a still solid team that lost their main bigtime players. It is easy to look good for a year or two if you have your stars, it is much more difficult to do when they are gone and you are now the one on the line with your recruits and your coaching.

If they turn in a 10-2 type season this year, and Utah pulls another 7-5 type year, there will probably be a lot of nervous Ute fans...

Although, yes, I do agree with your point in principle. Bronco has had a very nice roster to work with the last two seasons. One was below expectations, the other above them. We'll see how he does this year.

Having said that, I was upset with Bronco' hire to begin with, and he has pretty much won me over. There are a few things he needs to show me this year to be completely sold, but he's done a solid job so far.

[UteStar]

I agree with you Sizzle.

In regards to Bronco, and I have said this before, I think he did a very average or just below average job his first year overall. I think Crowton would have had pretty much the same record. Now, with that said, Bronco instilled in his players an entirely different attitude for the better than they probably would have done with Crowton.

Now, Bronco's second year was much much better than average. Crowton would not have had the same success as Bronco had. No way. Bronco had the pieces and he made them his.

This coming year will go along ways toward proving if Bronco is a good coach or a terrific coach. We won't probably won't know DEFINATELY on either Bronco or Kyle for another couple of years when their own players are flowing thru the program. I would love to see Bronco vs. Kyle for 20 years because that would mean both programs are doing well and succeeding. I would like that because it would mean great meaningful games...and lets be honest, Utah and BYU are the two flagship programs in the league. If they succeed, it truly pulls up the conference.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by UteStar

I would like that because it would mean great meaningful games...and lets be honest, Utah and BYU are the two flagship programs in the league. If they succeed, it truly pulls up the conference.

I'm just curious how you define a flagship program. If you're talking overall Athletic Department-wise, I think sound arguments can be made for Utah. If you're talking just football, I think sound arguments could be made for TCU instead of Utah. That's why I'm curious to know how you define a flagship program. Is it:

- Local support/attendance
- National fame/TV draw
- Love from the press
- Success on the field
- All of the above (if so in what percentage?)

Do you just consider the main sport of football, the "big two" (football and basketball), or the overall program, size of athletic department, etc. ?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by UteStar

There is a lot of Bronco love and it may be warranted...but it will be interesting to see how Bronco handles a still solid team that lost their main bigtime players. It is easy to look good for a year or two if you have your stars, it is much more difficult to do when they are gone and you are now the one on the line with your recruits and your coaching.

Do you honestly believe there is much chance Bronco is going to crash and burn like Crowton or Giacolletti? I just don't see any similarities to those situations. Giac's off the field issues before year 2 were alarms and clearly the Crowton run had some cracks, but honestly are you nervous that Bronco might just establish BYU as a dominant MWC team? I think I would be a bit if I were a Ute, although I would never admit it.

Honestly, given what one has from Bronco over two years what do you forsee his future as?

I think an analysis of the changes he makes, the staff he hires and the systems he puts in place indicate he is likely to be pretty successfull. I propose that in two years his teams have been more consistent in reaching their potential than Kyle's. You probably know more about what Kyle is doing than I do, but are you real excited for him long term and if so why?

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Do you honestly believe there is much chance Bronco is going to crash and burn like Crowton or Giacolletti? I just don't see any similarities to those situations. Giac's off the field issues before year 2 were alarms and clearly the Crowton run had some cracks, but honestly are you nervous that Bronco might just establish BYU as a dominant MWC team? I think I would be a bit if I were a Ute, although I would never admit it.

Here is one thing that I like and dislike at the same time about Bronco. He has been very clear about what he is about since day 1. I like his being open and upfront, and having his plans and the guts to stick to his guns.

My biggest concern is if he fails. He's painted himself into a bit of a corner, that BYU can succeed bringing in quality young men and winning at a high level. If he doesn't win, I don't think BYU can go back to lowering their standards and taking 'less than perfect' guys who are great athletes.

Off what he's shown the last two years, most of those doubts are gone...

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

Here is one thing that I like and dislike at the same time about Bronco. He has been very clear about what he is about since day 1. I like his being open and upfront, and having his plans and the guts to stick to his guns.

My biggest concern is if he fails. He's painted himself into a bit of a corner, that BYU can succeed bringing in quality young men and winning at a high level. If he doesn't win, I don't think BYU can go back to lowering their standards and taking 'less than perfect' guys who are great athletes.

Off what he's shown the last two years, most of those doubts are gone...

I don't think he comprimises on character, but his academic smokescreen is obvious. IMO, his approach is simply that I will do all in my power to ensure that the kids who come here can stay here because it hurts the program to see talented kids kicked out.

I don't think it is so much spiritual crap as much as it it a belief that a less talented kid who will be here for 4 years is better than a more talented kid who does not make it past his sophmore year.

One of my favorite things about him is how he pacifies the mullahs. They are eating out of the palm of his hand.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

Here is one thing that I like and dislike at the same time about Bronco. He has been very clear about what he is about since day 1. I like his being open and upfront, and having his plans and the guts to stick to his guns.

My biggest concern is if he fails. He's painted himself into a bit of a corner, that BYU can succeed bringing in quality young men and winning at a high level. If he doesn't win, I don't think BYU can go back to lowering their standards and taking 'less than perfect' guys who are great athletes.

Off what he's shown the last two years, most of those doubts are gone...

I'm starting to believe Goat on this. I'm not sure if Bronco set out on the journey as deceitfully as Goat seems to think, but he doesn't seem to be holding fast to the idea we all thought he was spouting, as far as recruiting mission AP's and national merit scholars and trying to get them to perform on the field. Last class I believe had four non-LDS. That's pretty close to the average Lavell had. And Bronco's definitely trending up. I think his classes have gone 1 non LDS, 2, 4. I'll bet next year's is 4 or higher. This used to be my #1 concern about the program. It's not longer a concern for me.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm starting to believe Goat on this. I'm not sure if Bronco set out on the journey as deceitfully as Goat seems to think, but he doesn't seem to be holding fast to the idea we all thought he was spouting, as far as recruiting mission AP's and national merit scholars and trying to get them to perform on the field. Last class I believe had four non-LDS. That's pretty close to the average Lavell had. And Bronco's definitely trending up. I think his classes have gone 1 non LDS, 2, 4. I'll bet next year's is 4 or higher. This used to be my #1 concern about the program. It's not longer a concern for me.

I have never accused of him being deceitful. The only folks misled are a certain portion who want to be misled. He communicates to them in their language, that is all.

I think he has a plan to ensure he has some clout when the time comes that a kid who he thinks, such as Russell Tialeeva, is a good kid but who made a mistake requires Bronco's support it will mean something.

I do not believe he recruits kids that he is not convinced will stay. I give Crowton and Edwards the same benefit of the doubt, but I do believe Bronco is more thorough in his research and disclosure before he becomes convinced.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I have never accused of him being deceitful. The only folks misled are a certain portion who want to be misled. He communicates to them in their language, that is all.

I think he has a plan to ensure he has some clout when the time comes that a kid who he thinks, such as Russell Tialeeva, is a good kid but who made a mistake requires Bronco's support it will mean something.

I do not believe he recruits kids that he is not convinced will stay. I give Crowton and Edwards the same benefit of the doubt, but I do believe Bronco is more thorough in his research and disclosure before he becomes convinced.

I'm old fashioned I guess. I call a lie a lie, even if I don't think it's a bad lie. Nowadays it's all called spin. I'm not using the word deceitful in a negative way just calling a spade a spade.

I call it deceitful, for example, when an AD sacks his coach in a way that it can be called technically and publicly a "resignation" and then begs off all questions under the pretense that "the coach resigned so you'd have to ask him for the reasons, I can't tell you why he resigned".

[SeattleUte]

For the record; I haven't paid attention to this hread and don't intend to. I'm sure it's peppered with the most inane blue colored horse shit imaginable. Let's just say I'm interested in seeing how BM does when not gifted a first class DI quarterback and running back and seasoned supporting cast a la Giacolewtti and Bogut et al. Also, isn't it funny to think that BM is three seconds away from his job being in jeopardy. For the record, I wouldn't trade you coaches. From their head to head match ups it's clear to me who's tougher and more resourceful.