Taught lesson chastity to YM - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

scottie · 04-01-2009, 08:20 PM

This reminds me -- in the mission field when I would give pre-baptism interviews, I would ask the interview questions listed in the Missionary Guide. I'd get to "Do you live the Law of Chastity?" and right after that I'd inexplicably add, "Do you have a problem with masturbation?" How embarrassing.

MikeWaters · 04-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottie

This reminds me -- in the mission field when I would give pre-baptism interviews, I would ask the interview questions listed in the Missionary Guide. I'd get to "Do you live the Law of Chastity?" and right after that I'd inexplicably add, "Do you have a problem with masturbation?" How embarrassing.

That's what I am getting to. Where does it say to ask about masturbation? I can't find a source. Yet apparently, it gets asked all the time. Is that how it should be? I don't know.

Archaea · 04-01-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

That's what I am getting to. Where does it say to ask about masturbation? I can't find a source. Yet apparently, it gets asked all the time. Is that how it should be? I don't know.

This looks like gloss which got slopped on there, that nobody thought about.

Levin · 04-01-2009, 10:43 PM

Ho. Ly. Cow. From Vaughan J. Featherstone, spoken in General Conference, April 1975:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...____&hideNav=1

Masturbation

We shouldn’t have a problem with masturbation. I know one fine father who interviewed his 11-year-old son and he said, “Son, if you never masturbate, the time will come in your life when you will be able to sit in front of your bishop at age 19, and say to him, ‘I have never done that in my life,’ and then you can go to the stake president when you are interviewed for your mission and tell him, ‘I have never done that in my life.’ And you would be quite a rare young man.

The father again interviewed the young man, who is now 18 years old, and he asked the son about masturbation. The son said, “I have never done that in my life. You told me, Dad, that if I didn’t do that, I would be able to sit in front of the bishop and stake president and tell them I had never done it, and I would be a rare young man, and I am going to be able to do it.”

I believe, brethren, we have the willpower. We don’t have to buckle under Satan’s temptations. That urge does not have to be satisfied. It has to be transmuted to other things.

Don't Be Late (or leave early)

I believe, brethren, we have the willpower. We don’t have to buckle under Satan’s temptations. That urge does not have to be satisfied. It has to be transmuted to other things.

Now, let me spend no more time on this. Let me talk about another thing that keeps us from being pure in heart. We need to purge out of our lives the desire to come to meetings late and leave early.

I remember last conference I attended in the Assembly Hall; I was at the priesthood meeting. At the close of our great and beloved prophet’s wonderful discourse and counsel to us, at least 200 or 300 men got up and just started moving en masse toward all the doors. The closing hymn hadn’t been sung, the prayer hadn’t been rendered. And these men, inconsiderate, lacking in discipline, simply got up and moved out of the Assembly Hall to save five minutes.

I wonder, brethren, and I love you, but I just wonder how you can do it. I don’t see any of the men that I prize most, leaving any meetings early except in an emergency. I believe they have the dignity to not offend God. I believe it is an offense to God when we leave meetings early, and when we come late to meetings.

Don't Be Fat

Another problem: an overweight girl from Ogden went to see her bishop. In the purity and goodness of charity, trying to help the girl, he counseled her that it might be a good idea to lose a few pounds. Pitifully heartbroken, she went home and told her father. It had cankered her soul. The father, of course, negative toward the Church all of his life, waiting for something like this, sprung like a cat on the bishop’s back, and they came down to see me and wanted their memberships transferred out of the bishop’s ward. I asked them why, because I didn’t know all this background, and they said, “Well, our bishop suggested to our daughter that she might lose a few pounds and make herself a little more attractive.” Now I want you to know that I defended that great bishop. I said to this family, “You are wrong. That sweet bishop, out of purity and love for your daughter, felt and did that which he was impressed to do. I am sure it was a message from God to your daughter, and she let it canker her soul. The strange thing is that she was probably up in her bedroom the night before praying, ‘Heavenly Father, I am lonely. I need someone. Please help me. Help me to find someone so I won’t be so lonely.’ ” And yet oftentimes we are offended because a sweet bishop gives us some instruction which is hard for us to live.

Don't Drink Cola

I was over in England a while back and a bishop asked me, “What is the Church’s stand on cola drinks?” I said, “Well, I can’t remember the exact wording of the bulletin, but I remember seeing the bulletin when I was a stake president. The Church, of course, advises against them.”

He said, “Well, I have read the Priesthood Bulletin, but that isn’t what it says to me.”

And I said, “Would you get your Priesthood Bulletin? Let’s read it together.” And so we found under the heading “Cola Drinks”: “… the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs. …” (The Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.)

He said, “Well, you see, that doesn’t mean cola.”

I said, “Well, I guess you will have to come to your own grips with that, but to me, there is no question.” You see, there can’t be the slightest particle of rebellion, and in him there is. We can find loopholes in a lot of things if we want to bend the rules of the Church.

Don't Give Hugs

I remember meeting with a man some time back. Seventeen years before, his wife had a problem. She embraced another man in a moment of weakness, and then this was kept a secret for 17 long years. And this good brother, her husband, who had kept the law, who had never violated the code, all of a sudden found out about this, and it almost totally destroyed him. He came to see me and he asked, “What do you think I should do?”

And I said, “You must forget and forgive. And when I say forget, it must be taken from your mind forever and ever.”

He said, “But I can’t. I can’t get it off my mind, seeing her in someone else’s arms.”

And I said, “Then you remember what it was like in the temple, and you view her in your mind every time kneeling across the altar from you. I am sure she has been punished enough and has suffered enough; she needs no more. She has repented, and you forgive her.”

Well, he took that advice and was kind enough to follow it.

Adam-God Theory

Another case is the one of those who talk about the “Adam-God” theory; I guess when they are engrossed with all these different theories, and things in the Church, they don’t have time to study faith and repentance. Maybe they ought to get back to basics. And when they understand everything about faith, then they can move on to the next principle.

Prophet Worship

Now, the Lord bless you. This is the greatest group of men collected on the face of the earth in its entire history, and I am grateful to be part of it and to be associated with those men who are most pure in heart. They are truly pure. I bear that solemn witness, and I bear witness that our beloved prophet is probably the most pure in heart of any and all I have ever known, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

* * * * * * * * * * *

That. Was. All. In. One. General. Conference. Address.

I would love to see the blazes of glory that would shoot through the sky if that talk were given today. Blazes. Of. Glory.

MikeWaters · 04-01-2009, 10:57 PM

That's funny, advice about fat chicks in General Conference.

Anyway, the talk doesn't address the gravity of masturbation--if it's a sin, how bad of a sin is it? It certainly does imply that the question is appropriate for a YM in an interview with his bishop.

If this is as strong as the evidence is, that's not very strong evidence.

Archaea · 04-01-2009, 10:59 PM

OMG, I am shocked they leave that one around.

Don't give hugs. Don't give hugs.

Prophet worship.

cola drinks, clear to me. Spirit of rebellion.

Don't be fat.

MikeWaters · 04-01-2009, 11:06 PM

According to wikipedia, Featherstone grew up with an abusive alcoholic father. It says his parents divorced as well. Not the typical LDS background.

Levin · 04-01-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

That's funny, advice about fat chicks in General Conference.

Anyway, the talk doesn't address the gravity of masturbation--if it's a sin, how bad of a sin is it? It certainly does imply that the question is appropriate for a YM in an interview with his bishop.

If this is as strong as the evidence is, that's not very strong evidence.

You know, I think this is an important issue. In fact, for the young man who's not having sex, this is the issue and it has a powerful influence over his self concept.

I think we're walking a fine line: don't do it (we can't encourage it or say it's okay), but we're not going to be specific all that often. We clearly don't want addiction or it to be an effective gateway activity, but we also don't want to make every single young man in the Church to feel like a dirty bastard. So we walk the fine line: teach the principle, and then just watch out for addiction and such. At least that's my sense.

MikeWaters · 04-01-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levin

You know, I think this is an important issue. In fact, for the young man who's not having sex, this is the issue and it has a powerful influence over his self concept.

I think we're walking a fine line: don't do it (we can't encourage it or say it's okay), but we're not going to be specific all that often. We clearly don't want addition or it to be an effective gateway activity, but we also don't want to make every single young man in the Church to feel like a dirty bastard. So we walk the fine line: teach the principle, and then just watch out for addiction and such. At least that's my sense.

Or let Judges in Israel make their own minds up and enforce whatever version of chastity they see as most appropriate. Which is probably what happens.

How many kids go inactive or don't go on missions because of this issue--or feel like they are awful people? I don't know.

It seems like it's a gray area, as you are suggesting.

Levin · 04-01-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

According to wikipedia, Featherstone grew up with an abusive alcoholic father. It says his parents divorced as well. Not the typical LDS background.

Here's one thing I remember about Bro. Featherstone: in my chapel, there was a framed quote of his. It was from his talk at our Stake Conference, and it was to the effect that my home town was a choice town and that its young men would one day be prophets and apostles of the Church.

You know, Elder Jay Jensen is from my hometown; maybe he'll be the one called as the new Apostle.

But I think such talk is over the top.

04-01-2009, 10:43 PM	#14
Levin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,484	Ho. Ly. Cow. From Vaughan J. Featherstone, spoken in General Conference, April 1975: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...____&hideNav=1 Masturbation We shouldn’t have a problem with masturbation. I know one fine father who interviewed his 11-year-old son and he said, “Son, if you never masturbate, the time will come in your life when you will be able to sit in front of your bishop at age 19, and say to him, ‘I have never done that in my life,’ and then you can go to the stake president when you are interviewed for your mission and tell him, ‘I have never done that in my life.’ And you would be quite a rare young man. The father again interviewed the young man, who is now 18 years old, and he asked the son about masturbation. The son said, “I have never done that in my life. You told me, Dad, that if I didn’t do that, I would be able to sit in front of the bishop and stake president and tell them I had never done it, and I would be a rare young man, and I am going to be able to do it.” I believe, brethren, we have the willpower. We don’t have to buckle under Satan’s temptations. That urge does not have to be satisfied. It has to be transmuted to other things. Don't Be Late (or leave early) I believe, brethren, we have the willpower. We don’t have to buckle under Satan’s temptations. That urge does not have to be satisfied. It has to be transmuted to other things. Now, let me spend no more time on this. Let me talk about another thing that keeps us from being pure in heart. We need to purge out of our lives the desire to come to meetings late and leave early. I remember last conference I attended in the Assembly Hall; I was at the priesthood meeting. At the close of our great and beloved prophet’s wonderful discourse and counsel to us, at least 200 or 300 men got up and just started moving en masse toward all the doors. The closing hymn hadn’t been sung, the prayer hadn’t been rendered. And these men, inconsiderate, lacking in discipline, simply got up and moved out of the Assembly Hall to save five minutes. I wonder, brethren, and I love you, but I just wonder how you can do it. I don’t see any of the men that I prize most, leaving any meetings early except in an emergency. I believe they have the dignity to not offend God. I believe it is an offense to God when we leave meetings early, and when we come late to meetings. Don't Be Fat Another problem: an overweight girl from Ogden went to see her bishop. In the purity and goodness of charity, trying to help the girl, he counseled her that it might be a good idea to lose a few pounds. Pitifully heartbroken, she went home and told her father. It had cankered her soul. The father, of course, negative toward the Church all of his life, waiting for something like this, sprung like a cat on the bishop’s back, and they came down to see me and wanted their memberships transferred out of the bishop’s ward. I asked them why, because I didn’t know all this background, and they said, “Well, our bishop suggested to our daughter that she might lose a few pounds and make herself a little more attractive.” Now I want you to know that I defended that great bishop. I said to this family, “You are wrong. That sweet bishop, out of purity and love for your daughter, felt and did that which he was impressed to do. I am sure it was a message from God to your daughter, and she let it canker her soul. The strange thing is that she was probably up in her bedroom the night before praying, ‘Heavenly Father, I am lonely. I need someone. Please help me. Help me to find someone so I won’t be so lonely.’ ” And yet oftentimes we are offended because a sweet bishop gives us some instruction which is hard for us to live. Don't Drink Cola I was over in England a while back and a bishop asked me, “What is the Church’s stand on cola drinks?” I said, “Well, I can’t remember the exact wording of the bulletin, but I remember seeing the bulletin when I was a stake president. The Church, of course, advises against them.” He said, “Well, I have read the Priesthood Bulletin, but that isn’t what it says to me.” And I said, “Would you get your Priesthood Bulletin? Let’s read it together.” And so we found under the heading “Cola Drinks”: “… the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs. …” (The Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.) He said, “Well, you see, that doesn’t mean cola.” I said, “Well, I guess you will have to come to your own grips with that, but to me, there is no question.” You see, there can’t be the slightest particle of rebellion, and in him there is. We can find loopholes in a lot of things if we want to bend the rules of the Church. Don't Give Hugs I remember meeting with a man some time back. Seventeen years before, his wife had a problem. She embraced another man in a moment of weakness, and then this was kept a secret for 17 long years. And this good brother, her husband, who had kept the law, who had never violated the code, all of a sudden found out about this, and it almost totally destroyed him. He came to see me and he asked, “What do you think I should do?” And I said, “You must forget and forgive. And when I say forget, it must be taken from your mind forever and ever.” He said, “But I can’t. I can’t get it off my mind, seeing her in someone else’s arms.” And I said, “Then you remember what it was like in the temple, and you view her in your mind every time kneeling across the altar from you. I am sure she has been punished enough and has suffered enough; she needs no more. She has repented, and you forgive her.” Well, he took that advice and was kind enough to follow it. Adam-God Theory Another case is the one of those who talk about the “Adam-God” theory; I guess when they are engrossed with all these different theories, and things in the Church, they don’t have time to study faith and repentance. Maybe they ought to get back to basics. And when they understand everything about faith, then they can move on to the next principle. Prophet Worship Now, the Lord bless you. This is the greatest group of men collected on the face of the earth in its entire history, and I am grateful to be part of it and to be associated with those men who are most pure in heart. They are truly pure. I bear that solemn witness, and I bear witness that our beloved prophet is probably the most pure in heart of any and all I have ever known, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. * * * * * * * * * * * That. Was. All. In. One. General. Conference. Address. I would love to see the blazes of glory that would shoot through the sky if that talk were given today. Blazes. Of. Glory. __________________ "Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12

04-01-2009, 10:59 PM	#16
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	OMG, I am shocked they leave that one around. Don't give hugs. Don't give hugs. Prophet worship. cola drinks, clear to me. Spirit of rebellion. Don't be fat. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 04-01-2009 at 11:02 PM.

04-01-2009, 08:20 PM	#11
scottie Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 525	This reminds me -- in the mission field when I would give pre-baptism interviews, I would ask the interview questions listed in the Missionary Guide. I'd get to "Do you live the Law of Chastity?" and right after that I'd inexplicably add, "Do you have a problem with masturbation?" How embarrassing.

04-01-2009, 10:57 PM	#15
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	That's funny, advice about fat chicks in General Conference. Anyway, the talk doesn't address the gravity of masturbation--if it's a sin, how bad of a sin is it? It certainly does imply that the question is appropriate for a YM in an interview with his bishop. If this is as strong as the evidence is, that's not very strong evidence.

04-01-2009, 11:06 PM	#17
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	According to wikipedia, Featherstone grew up with an abusive alcoholic father. It says his parents divorced as well. Not the typical LDS background.