06-22-2006, 10:59 PM | #11 | |
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Brigham, Joseph Fielding, dem der black folk, were void of spirits, werent very good listeners in the pre-life and are down right half human, no priesthood for dem.... |
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06-22-2006, 10:59 PM | #12 |
Charon
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Question for you, stonewall:
Leaving aside the priesthood issue for just a second, do you feel it is "racist" for a place of business (restaurant, market, hotel, etc.) to refuse service to blacks, solely on the issue of race/skin color?
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06-22-2006, 11:01 PM | #13 | |
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The issue, as far as I can tell, is the result of imperfect members of the church. Upon reading David O. McKay's biography, it seemed very clear that were it entirely up to him, he would have changed the priesthood ban. It seems to me that the members of the church simply were not ready for it. The Lord waited for the hearts of the members of His church to soften to the extent that they could accept the policy. Whether this weakness can be specifically attributed to any one member, from the recently baptized eight year-old to Brigham Young himself, doesn't really bother me. The fact that a leader of the church who very passionately wanted to change the policy and could not receive approval to do so tells me that the problem extended well beyond Brigham Young, irrespective of how much it involved him.
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06-22-2006, 11:03 PM | #14 | |
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I believe prophets make mistakes, yes. But I don't believe prophets make mistakes that cause millions of people to be unable to participate as a full member in the Lord's Kingdom. I believe the fact that many prophets after BY continued with the ban only strengthens the position that this wasn't some, "Oops, I really messed things up" by BY. It's right there, in the scriptures, that the voice of the Lord's servants, when speaking as prophet, is the same as the Lord speaking. |
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06-22-2006, 11:05 PM | #15 | |
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My answer: no. The Lord is perfect. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong. Remind me where the Lord said that He would clearly explain everything He does/thinks to us. My response to Fus: Could all black members in Joseph's day hold the priesthood, or was it only a select few...honest question. |
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06-22-2006, 11:05 PM | #16 | |
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Here's the rub AA, if the early church leadership would have followed the example of fellowship, friendship, and trust in blacks as Joseph did, would the hearts of the general membership need to be softened? |
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06-22-2006, 11:09 PM | #17 | |
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I think a prophet can only have so much effect on the members. As clearly shown here on CG, people don't follow the prophet unless they agree with him and understand why he teaches something. |
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06-22-2006, 11:15 PM | #18 | |
Charon
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Clearly, this was a racist policy. And to a certain degree it was a product of the times in which they lived. So if they could err with this policy (please educate me if you don't agree it was an error), then why not concede the possibility that there could be some error in the other policy? Or at the least, concede the possibility that apostles (just like the rest of us) can be racist at times.
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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06-22-2006, 11:21 PM | #19 | |
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And, no one yet has explained to me how all this is possible given the scripture I quoted. So the Lord was just kidding in the Doctrine & Covenants or now the scriptures aren't all true? |
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06-22-2006, 11:30 PM | #20 | ||
Charon
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And David O McKay publicly stated (late in life) that he believed it was a policy and not a doctrine. Hugh B. Brown argued long and hard that it was a policy and not a doctrine. A detailed study of the genesis and history of the ban clearly implies (IMO) that it was a policy, not a doctrine. Quote:
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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