A few things on Kaveinga and USC

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This defeatist talk gets pretty lame. Clemson had the #1 recruiting class in the nation. BYU has plenty to offer.

Thank you Jay. It seems that half our class will go off on missions before matriculation. BYU is unique, yet we still manage to put a competitive product on the field.

Can't wait for fall.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Other than the Church aspect, we have nothing to offer, unless one wants a smaller community. I couldn't enjoy attending in the midst of Smell A, but most people can.

I think the allure for 18 year olds is that Snoop and Will Ferrell come to your practices, Kim Kardashian is your groupie, etc.....

In all honesty, if you are on a winning team, I cant think of a better place to play than LA. Being a rock star here is unparalled.

As the adage goes, if you can make it in NY, you can make it anywhere.

But if you can make it in LA, you will make it everywhere.

[SipiTau]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

I really think Uona is going to serve a mission, maybe Pete will try to talk him out of it, but I doubt it. Uona Kaveinga is in the bottom 3rd of importance in this recruiting class for USC that is why Pete is allowing him to serve a mission, Pete is setting himself up to land Manti Te'o. He knows that if Kaveinga comes and doesnt serve his chances of landing Manti drop dramatically. However if Kaveinga does serve then BYU may not ever get another top LDS recruit with an SC offer again.

Call Pete Carroll whatever you want, but he is no idiot.

PC realizes that there's a great chance of any poly kid he recruits is going to be LDS. Out of the 8 polynesian players on the current SC roster, 4 are LDS, one of them an RM.

As hokey as it sounds, these kids are setting a great example and PC likes having them in the program; it also helps that they're great athletes, but I've noticed the attitude changing at Heritage Hall. You might as well get used to it, the LDS athlete is on the radar at SC, especially polyneisan kids.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What top LDS recruit have we ever gotten head-to-head with USC?

Jake Kuresa...but that was before the USC machine really took off.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This defeatist talk gets pretty lame. Clemson had the #1 recruiting class in the nation. BYU has plenty to offer.

I have not seen any recruiting service that has Clemson as number 1. The two big ones that do the most research dont even have them in the top 10.

Scout.com
1. Alabama
2. Notre Dame
3. Miami
4. Georgia
5. Florida State
6. LSU
7. Ohio State
8. Michigan
9. USC
10. UCLA

Rivals.com
1. Alabama
2. Notre Dame
3. Florida
4. Miami
5. Oklahoma
6. Georgia
7. USC
8. Florida State
9. Ohio State
10. Michigan

Espn
1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. Alabama
4. Florida
5. Georgia
6. USC
7. Ohio State
8. Oklahoma
9 Notre Dame
10. Texas

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

I have not seen any recruiting service that has Clemson as number 1. The two big ones that do the most research dont even have them in the top 10.

Scout.com
1. Alabama
2. Notre Dame
3. Miami
4. Georgia
5. Florida State
6. LSU
7. Ohio State
8. Michigan
9. USC
10. UCLA

Rivals.com
1. Alabama
2. Notre Dame
3. Florida
4. Miami
5. Oklahoma
6. Georgia
7. USC
8. Florida State
9. Ohio State
10. Michigan

Espn
1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. Alabama
4. Florida
5. Georgia
6. USC
7. Ohio State
8. Oklahoma
9 Notre Dame
10. Texas

I saw that ESPN list yesterday. #2 not #1. Anyway, the point is the difference between the big boys and the next tier is not so great that we can never compete with them for a recruit. Of course they will get more great recruits.

We're a top 20 team. You can start right away for us. We send guys to the NFL. If you go to USC, you'll be one of a million 4 star recruits. You're special at BYU. We ought to have a compelling case even if you throw out the LDS school stuff.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I saw that ESPN list yesterday. #2 not #1. Anyway, the point is the difference between the big boys and the next tier is not so great that we can never compete with them for a recruit. Of course they will get more great recruits.

We're a top 20 team. You can start right away for us. We send guys to the NFL. If you go to USC, you'll be one of a million 4 star recruits. You're special at BYU. We ought to have a compelling case even if you throw out the LDS school stuff.

We ought to have a case, but you are forgetting that these kids are 17-18 years old and have dominated at every level of competition they have ever participated in. I doubt any of them think that they are going to be a career back up at USC even though some of them will. When USC comes a calling I am sure that they think that they will eventually be a starter and play on the biggest stage and compete for national champuonships on their way to the NFL.

USC has a relatively high number of transfers once a kid realizes that 4*s are a dime a dozen at USC. ie Emanual Moody et al. Getting kids initially is easy for USC because the kids believe in themselves. USC does not really don't care about the eventual relatively high attrition because they build so much depth.

What you propose Jay is sending a message to a kid that you are not good enough to be a star at USC but you can be a star at BYU. That message really does not work IMHO. That message does not sink in until two-a-days in august.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I saw that ESPN list yesterday. #2 not #1. Anyway, the point is the difference between the big boys and the next tier is not so great that we can never compete with them for a recruit. Of course they will get more great recruits.

We're a top 20 team. You can start right away for us. We send guys to the NFL. If you go to USC, you'll be one of a million 4 star recruits. You're special at BYU. We ought to have a compelling case even if you throw out the LDS school stuff.

I agree so why hasnt it worked? Think about the players we have lost to big time programs that were LDS.

Sione Fua, Mau Nomani, Haloti Ngata, Uona Kaveinga, Deuce Lutui, Stanley Havili, Shannon and Sonny Tevaga, Tony Moeaki, Will Tukuafu, Martin Tevaseau, Max Luioti-Mariner, Hamani Stevens, Victor Felipe, Simi Kuli, the list goes on and on. Now think about the big time recruits we have landed that were recruited seriously by the top notch schools, specifically polynesian kids:

Jake Kuresa
Matangi Tonga
Vic So'oto
Devin Mahina
Ofa Mohetau and Brian Soi both flamed out.
Thats about it.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by cougjunkie

I agree so why hasnt it worked? Think about the players we have lost to big time programs that were LDS.

Sione Fua, Mau Nomani, Haloti Ngata, Uona Kaveinga, Deuce Lutui, Stanley Havili, Shannon and Sonny Tevaga, Tony Moeaki, Will Tukuafu, Martin Tevaseau, Max Luioti-Mariner, Hamani Stevens, Victor Felipe, Simi Kuli, the list goes on and on. Now think about the big time recruits we have landed that were recruited seriously by the top notch schools, specifically polynesian kids:

Jake Kuresa
Matangi Tonga
Vic So'oto
Devin Mahina
Ofa Mohetau and Brian Soi both flamed out.
Thats about it.

I think it's a combination of

a. not working hard enough, our coaches are not good recruiters comparatively
b. relying too much on the "uniqueness" and not the football message
c. Crowton years hurting our national standing and name recognition
d. conference affiliation issues getting more serious--BCS, MTN, etc

I don't think it's just because USC is USC and BYU is BYU and we might as well not even try.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

We ought to have a case, but you are forgetting that these kids are 17-18 years old and have dominated at every level of competition they have ever participated in. I doubt any of them think that they are going to be a career back up at USC even though some of them will. When USC comes a calling I am sure that they think that they will eventually be a starter and play on the biggest stage and compete for national champuonships on their way to the NFL.

USC has a relatively high number of transfers once a kid realizes that 4*s are a dime a dozen at USC. ie Emanual Moody et al. Getting kids initially is easy for USC because the kids believe in themselves. USC does not really don't care about the eventual relatively high attrition because they build so much depth.

What you propose Jay is sending a message to a kid that you are not good enough to be a star at USC but you can be a star at BYU. That message really does not work IMHO. That message does not sink in until two-a-days in august.

Actually, besides Moody hightailing it to Florida, we havent really had any high profile emmigration.

We DID nab Mitch Mustain, and he left Arkansas after a stellar year knowing that he would be behind Booty and Sanchez.

I think the best want to compete. More importantly, they want to be seen. I think this point cannot be underestimated. These kids want to be on a stage.

Where would you rather play? SC v ND at Notre Dame Stadium, SC v UCLA at the Rose Bowl, SC v Ohio State at the Coliseum, or BYU v Wyoming in Laramie on the Mtn?