I don't get "Satan." - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SteelBlue · 02-21-2006, 07:32 PM

I was listening to Art Bell one night years ago. It was one of those nights where he asks you to call in if you believe yourself to be the antichrist. Always entertaining. Anyway, a lady from Salt Lake City calls in and says that she is not the antichrist, just a follower of Satan. She says that the Christian religion is engaged in a war of propaganda trying to make people believe that the Devil's cause is a dead end. She goes on to say that neither Satan nor his followers believe they cannot win this great battle in the end and then says it is obvious they are winning now.

Now besides the fact that this woman was crazy, she brought up an interesting point. Is it possible that Satan thinks he still can come out of this thing ok? Or is he really just going postal before his time is up?

Alkili · 02-21-2006, 07:36 PM

He is just someone who loves darkness rather then light. I've known people who just don't care that what they are doing is evil, they love they short term power too much to give it up.

I have a theory that Satan was actually the first spirtual child until he went off the deep end and the title switched to Christ.

MikeWaters · 02-21-2006, 07:59 PM

God is the one who tells us that Satan is destined to "lose."

And God is telling the truth, from His perspective.

In other words, have we considered the idea that both God and Satan walk away thinking he has won?

It is implied in Mormon doctrine that the worlds of God and Satan at some point become so distant that not even God or the angels know what transpires. Like matter and antimatter.

Make your choice.

SteelBlue · 02-21-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

In other words, have we considered the idea that both God and Satan walk away thinking he has won?

That's the point I was trying to make with the crazy lady story.

creekster · 02-21-2006, 11:49 PM

Perhaps until the atonement was completed it wasn't a done deal; perhaps the moment in the Garden when the phrase "let this cup pass" segued into "thy will be done" was the turning point in this creation's existnce. If so, he is now angry but perhaps up until that point he was hopeful.

This is not doctrine, btw, just speculative musing.

outlier · 02-22-2006, 02:03 PM

http://www.cougarguard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=511

I still agree with myself. And Non Sequitur.

I'm increasingly enamored of the idea that belief in a literal Satan does more harm than good.

o

Indy Coug · 02-22-2006, 03:18 PM

I don't think there is a problem with believing in a literal Satan. If people think they have an excuse for their wrongdoings, "the devil made me do it", the problem isn't with the literal existence of Satan, it's the pathological inability to take responsibility for one's own actions, and that problem would be made manifest regardless of the literal/symbolic nature of Satan.

SteelBlue · 02-22-2006, 09:58 PM

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist."

---Kayser Soze

Question: Why won't my picture work? What am I doing wrong?

UtahDan · 02-22-2006, 10:12 PM

The problem that I have with most of the descriptions of Satan's motives above is that they ascribe an irrationality of one kind or another to him. I don't think that he is irrational, just think he defines victory some other way than we do.

I think he gets something out of what he does that we are not aware of. I base this on the observation that people rarely long persist in any course of action that does not work for then at some level even if it has other draw backs. Nor do I think that bitterness is a sufficient incentive to sustain the level of motivation required.

Then again, this is from the perspective of the flesh and of course he has none.

ute4ever · 02-22-2006, 11:15 PM

The definition of insanity is repeating the same activity but expecting a different result.

02-21-2006, 07:36 PM	#12
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	He is just someone who loves darkness rather then light. I've known people who just don't care that what they are doing is evil, they love they short term power too much to give it up. I have a theory that Satan was actually the first spirtual child until he went off the deep end and the title switched to Christ. __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

02-22-2006, 02:03 PM	#16
outlier Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 180	http://www.cougarguard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=511 I still agree with myself. And Non Sequitur. I'm increasingly enamored of the idea that belief in a literal Satan does more harm than good. o __________________ Es irrt der Mensch solang er strebt. -J. W. v. Goethe (OTOH, just because you screw up, that doesn\'t mean you\'re getting somewhere.) The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. - W. Churchill

02-22-2006, 10:12 PM	#19
UtahDan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Bluth Home Posts: 3,877	The problem that I have with most of the descriptions of Satan's motives above is that they ascribe an irrationality of one kind or another to him. I don't think that he is irrational, just think he defines victory some other way than we do. I think he gets something out of what he does that we are not aware of. I base this on the observation that people rarely long persist in any course of action that does not work for then at some level even if it has other draw backs. Nor do I think that bitterness is a sufficient incentive to sustain the level of motivation required. Then again, this is from the perspective of the flesh and of course he has none. __________________ The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo

02-21-2006, 07:32 PM	#11
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	I was listening to Art Bell one night years ago. It was one of those nights where he asks you to call in if you believe yourself to be the antichrist. Always entertaining. Anyway, a lady from Salt Lake City calls in and says that she is not the antichrist, just a follower of Satan. She says that the Christian religion is engaged in a war of propaganda trying to make people believe that the Devil's cause is a dead end. She goes on to say that neither Satan nor his followers believe they cannot win this great battle in the end and then says it is obvious they are winning now. Now besides the fact that this woman was crazy, she brought up an interesting point. Is it possible that Satan thinks he still can come out of this thing ok? Or is he really just going postal before his time is up?

02-21-2006, 07:59 PM	#13
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	God is the one who tells us that Satan is destined to "lose." And God is telling the truth, from His perspective. In other words, have we considered the idea that both God and Satan walk away thinking he has won? It is implied in Mormon doctrine that the worlds of God and Satan at some point become so distant that not even God or the angels know what transpires. Like matter and antimatter. Make your choice.

02-21-2006, 11:49 PM	#15
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	Perhaps until the atonement was completed it wasn't a done deal; perhaps the moment in the Garden when the phrase "let this cup pass" segued into "thy will be done" was the turning point in this creation's existnce. If so, he is now angry but perhaps up until that point he was hopeful. This is not doctrine, btw, just speculative musing.

02-22-2006, 03:18 PM	#17
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	I don't think there is a problem with believing in a literal Satan. If people think they have an excuse for their wrongdoings, "the devil made me do it", the problem isn't with the literal existence of Satan, it's the pathological inability to take responsibility for one's own actions, and that problem would be made manifest regardless of the literal/symbolic nature of Satan.

02-22-2006, 09:58 PM	#18
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist." ---Kayser Soze Question: Why won't my picture work? What am I doing wrong?

02-22-2006, 11:15 PM	#20
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	The definition of insanity is repeating the same activity but expecting a different result.