05-16-2007, 05:30 AM | #11 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
But yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about subliminal messages or morals in this one.
__________________
εν αρχη ην ο λογος |
|
05-16-2007, 03:28 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
I agree with what you say here. However, it is important to note that Herodotus considered himself to be writing something altogether different from legend, something called "history." Thus, we honor him as the father of "history," as patently fanciful as much that he wrote was. Ironically, he has also been called the father of lies (many bestow that honor on the anonymous author or authors of the Pentateuch). While much of what Herodotus wrote may fairly be characterized as legend, the distinction between history and legend in any epoch following him is real and meaningful and important.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
05-16-2007, 03:35 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
What would you know about it? It must give you comfort to believe there's no symbolism to be had. Truth is most successful screenwriters are well educated and well read and the symobolism whether introduced consciously or subconsciously may be the best available plot devices, as well as what may add richness and depth. You couldn't make a film about Thermopylae without making it rich with symbolism, intended or unintended, as much of our popular culture and lore derives from legends such as Thermopylae, particularly Thermopylae. I think Frank Miller has a pretty thorough understanding of the place this story has in our culture.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
05-16-2007, 05:32 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
Herodotus opens his account in a way nobody else of his era did. Most accounts were for the glorification of the king. Here's what Herodotus wrote: This is the Showing forth of the Inquiry [gk: histories] of Herodotus of Halicarnassos, to the end that neither the deeds of men may be forgotten by lapse of time, nor the works great and marvellous, which have been produced some by Hellenes and some by Barbarians, may lose their renown; and especially that the causes may be remembered for which these waged war with one another. He's not writing for the glorification of a KING, unlike many others who grossly exaggerated their accounts in order to do so. He wrote for the glorification of the EVENTS. He is a conservative writer, writing to ensure that the events do not diminish in glory, and does often show unusual methods for his time. On several occasions, he presents one version of a story and then another, saying he's not sure which is true, but presents it to the reader to decide. He does also get a lot of things just plain wrong. No modern historian can agree to, for example, the number of the armies of the Persians, which are always impossibly large in comparison to the pitiful few of the Greeks. He does not always refrain from telling legend in place of history.
__________________
εν αρχη ην ο λογος |
|
05-16-2007, 05:54 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Quote:
AA loves to run home to his computer from BYU college courses to show off what a little smarty pants he is, but he calls Old Testament geneologies "history."
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-16-2007 at 06:02 PM. |
|
05-16-2007, 06:41 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,016
|
Quote:
Your condescension untoward AA is evidence of the narrow focus and immaturity of your own understanding of the cited history. Why the pretense? Speak honestly … you believe you are the authority and that his challenge is idiotic. |
|
05-16-2007, 07:01 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Quote:
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-16-2007 at 07:06 PM. |
|
05-16-2007, 07:09 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Happy Valley, PA
Posts: 1,866
|
I don't think the two of are really in disagreement on this issue. What you're both getting at is that Herodotus did something new. His historia [inquiry] is the first recorded investigation into the cause of something, namely the reasons behind the wars between the Persians and the Greeks. (1.1)
While Herodotus does engage in some rudimentary source criticism and takes efforts to establish his credibility, his account clearly contains some wild inaccuracies - causing some ancient writers to call him the "father of lies" as well as "the father of history." Nevertheless, these epithets are the result of later historians' conception of historia, not Herodotus'. Modern ideas of genre, such as history, rhetoric, mythography, chronography, etc. are not really applicable in the ancient world. It's not a coincidence that Herodotus has survived, but the writings of more "accurate" historians such as Ephorus, Hellanicus, or Theopompus have not. His work is hugely significant in the history of the western world. If I were to start a religion, Herodotus would be my scripture.
__________________
I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free. - Epitaph of Nikos Kazantzakis (1883-1957) |
05-16-2007, 07:12 PM | #19 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
05-16-2007, 07:17 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Quote:
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|