So I guess it really was about religion

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Aha.

For future reference, he is LDS and is anything but an apologist.

There's not even a Wikipedia article about him. Maybe you should write it. I hope it would stick.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

You folks in Seattle must live in a utopia. I suspect I could find black people living within 10 miles of you that would take great exception to your statement.

I said more than any other nation, not completely. Do you think there's less racism in France than in the U.S.?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

There's not even a Wikipedia article about him. Maybe you should write it. I hope it would stick.

Yeah, I noticed that. Maybe grapevine can help a brother out and take a shot at a first draft.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I said more than any other nation, not completely. Do you think there's less racism in France than in the U.S.?

It's different. Hard to say if there is more or less. France is very egalitarian in terms of outcomes. For example, if one scores high enough on college entrance exams, the sky's the limit in terms of career and opportunities. That's why you see so many women in leadership positions in business and government. The inequality comes in terms of providing sufficient educational opportunities for the economic underclass.

Socially, interracial relationships were common (even among Mormons - God forbid), although I'm sure there might be some taboos in some circles. The black/white tension, if it existed, was minute compared to what one feels here. It really was quite liberating.

On a personal level, my 16-year-old has developed a little crush on the star basketball player at her school here. He's cute and is nice to her in class and in the hallways. He's also black. Were I in France, I would have little concern for how this might go were they to go out. Not here in Memphis. I fear the backlash from both sides.

Frankly, I suspect countries in Latin America, like Brazil or Cuba (pinkos that they are), have been much better at bridging the racial divide than the U.S.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

It's different. Hard to say if there is more or less. France is very egalitarian in terms of outcomes. For example, if one scores high enough on college entrance exams, the sky's the limit in terms of career and opportunities. That's why you see so many women in leadership positions in business and government. The inequality comes in terms of providing sufficient educational opportunities for the economic underclass.

Socially, interracial relationships were common (even among Mormons - God forbid), although I'm sure there might be some taboos in some circles. The black/white tension, if it existed, was minute compared to what one feels here. It really was quite liberating.

On a personal level, my 16-year-old has developed a little crush on the star basketball player at her school here. He's cute and is nice to her in class and in the hallways. He's also black. Were I in France, I would have little concern for how this might go were they to go out. Not here in Memphis. I fear the backlash from both sides.

Frankly, I suspect countries in Latin America, like Brazil or Cuba (pinkos that they are), have been much better at bridging the racial divide than the U.S.

Brazil doesn't have the same racism because the races are split som evenly.

33% White
33% Black
33% Latino

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't think Mormons will turn away either. Instead many will just state bold-faced lies, whether out of ignorance or duplicitousness.

"that never happened"
"we don't believe that, never have"
"we're past that now"
"we don't talk about that"

That's sad if that's how YOU respond. I don't and think the article is spot on. Mormons will not fade into the periphery despite your hopes.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by hyrum

So now your friends are confused, and someone will look it up on the internet and find out that you lied -- or, at best, artfully dodged the question. What will your firends think of you and your tribe then?

I may be wrong but I think he is being sarcastic

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

It's different. Hard to say if there is more or less. France is very egalitarian in terms of outcomes. For example, if one scores high enough on college entrance exams, the sky's the limit in terms of career and opportunities. That's why you see so many women in leadership positions in business and government. The inequality comes in terms of providing sufficient educational opportunities for the economic underclass.

Socially, interracial relationships were common (even among Mormons - God forbid), although I'm sure there might be some taboos in some circles. The black/white tension, if it existed, was minute compared to what one feels here. It really was quite liberating.

On a personal level, my 16-year-old has developed a little crush on the star basketball player at her school here. He's cute and is nice to her in class and in the hallways. He's also black. Were I in France, I would have little concern for how this might go were they to go out. Not here in Memphis. I fear the backlash from both sides.

Frankly, I suspect countries in Latin America, like Brazil or Cuba (pinkos that they are), have been much better at bridging the racial divide than the U.S.

Hardly sixty years ago Europeans fought a war that spread across the world that was all about racial hatred, killing seventy million of one another. There's a theory out there (it may now be conventional wisdom) that Europe has had a lot more trouble with chronic internal Islamic militancy and violence (France a prime example) than America because America is more open, tolerant and assimilating than Europe. Europeans and immigarans I've talked to from Europe say they believe it. I've heard that if you go to a soccer game in Europe, shouted racial epithets, something that would not be tolerated here, are the norm.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The dumbest thing Mormons could do is try to counter with "pro-Mormon propaganda." They'd be annihilated. If anything, what Mormons should take away from this is they should be less overt about revealing their self-identity as being so completely wrapped up in Mormonism. Think seriously about ommitting that mission experience from your resume or making it less prominent. (This is some friendly advice for you, and others like you, DJ Ross.)

Why doesn't any Mormon apologist (including non-Mormons like Mauss with a financial interest in being Mormon apologists) relflect about why those widespread negative attitudes about Mormonism exist. Our country is not pervasively evil. We've eliminated racism more completely than any nation on earth.

Waters has identified one very good reason for people to be turned off by Mormonism--the priesthood ban and Mormonism's refusal to take ownership for it and atone for it. This was the fact seized upon by Hitchens. Mormons better hope that articles like this don't become more widespread or it will just rile up guys like Hitchins.

Since when is it ignoble to oppose a candidate because of the content of his religious belief? Wouldn't that be reason enough to oppose Tom Cruise? Most Mormons and secularists whether they admit it or not oppose Huckabee purely because of the content of his religious faith. There may be other reasons to oppose him were they to investigate, but most of us stop at his religious faith.

The silliest thing you have said above is that they would be 'annihilated'. If your efforts here on this board are any indication not only are 'we' not annihilated but rather we are thriving while you are struggling to keep up

"We've eliminated racism more completely than any nation on earth." You're kidding right? lol You've now lost ALL credibility.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Hardly sixty years ago Europeans fought a war that spread across the world that was all about racial hatred, killing seventy million of one another. There's a theory out there (it may now be conventional wisdom) that Europe has had a lot more trouble with chronic internal Islamic militancy and violence (France a prime example) than America because America is more open, tolerant and assimilating than Europe. Europeans and immigarans I've talked to from Europe say they believe it. I've heard that if you go to a soccer game in Europe, shouted racial epithets, something that would not be tolerated here, are the norm.

There's a marked difference between intolerance for language and the application of political correctness as opposed to legitimate opportunities afforded to all persons regardless of race.