what are the practical effects of excommunication?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Before repentance had taken place? Link?

After repentance. You obviously don't read my posts if you think I've been advocating for any forgiveness to be obtained pre-repentance. Here's the link:

www.coriantoniknowyoumessedupbutgetyourassbackther eandfinishyourwork.com

[MikeWaters]

When is the last time you've heard someone in a talk or bearing their testimony say "I am a sinner."

Again, another interesting point in how Mormons view themselves. For Mormons, this would be akin to saying "I'm a bad person."

To non-Mormon Christians it would mean "I'm trying to be humble and accept Christ's atonement."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Before repentance had taken place? Link?

i found another link

www.womannomancondemntheesaveindyandtexgoandsinnom ore.com

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I love this sin category creation you do: serious vs not serious.

Serious: all those sins other people do

Not serious: all those sins I do

Another unfair characterization of what I've been saying.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Sorry, had to break for FHE. I have a lot to teach my kids to undue the legalism you teach them at church.

You've avoided this for about 12 posts in a row now, and I don't know why I expect you to stop avoiding the question, but I'll try one last time.

"Confess and forsake" is certainly a true doctrine. But your interpretation is what's faulty. You're assuming that a repeat of a sin is evidence that the person never was truly repentant. Given that belief, what you're saying is that any sin you commit more than once: dishonesty, selfishness, greed, lust, anger, laziness, etc (you're a great guy Tex but I'm sure there's one in there that gives you problems) by definition, you've never truly repented of that sin. And if you don't approach the sacrament, exercising faith in Christ and truly repenting of your sins, then you do it unworthily.

If you hang someone with this interpretation of "confess and forsake", you're hanging yourself too, unless you deny repeating any sin ever.

You're going on about 20 posts trying to answer this concept and you're still failing. You even started a new thread. Answer this post right here or admit you're wrong if you want any credibility on this subject.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I love this sin category creation you do: serious vs not serious.

Serious: all those sins other people do

Not serious: all those sins I do

You are seriously f'ed up in the head, Jay. I specifically stated some very serious, specific sins (molesting babysitters, robbing stores, fudgepacking) and you've gone off on some wild sanctimonious rant about all sins in general, which isn't what I was saying or implying.

I didn't say they couldn't repent, but I did say they had no business exercising their priesthood until they had repented; something that requires involvement with their ecclesiastical leader. This isn't some gray area we're talking about with these very SPECIFIC items. I did not attempt to extrapolate beyond these items, but you have.

Are you really that stupid? Honestly? You must be trolling because you can't be that mentally deficient.

Even fusnik agreed that child molestation was a serious sin.

When you make the above comments, you come off as a complete idiot.

[MikeWaters]

indy , do you differentiate sexual sin, i.e. heterosexual fornication being a lesser sin than homosexual fornication?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

indy , do you differentiate sexual sin, i.e. heterosexual fornication being a lesser sin than homosexual fornication?

Well, I think I provided instances of both immediately above, so what do you think?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I specifically stated some very serious, specific sins (molesting babysitters, robbing stores, fudgepacking) and you've gone off on some wild sanctimonious rant about all sins in general, which isn't what I was saying or implying.

I didn't say they couldn't repent, but I did say they had no business exercising their priesthood until they had repented; something that requires involvement with their ecclesiastical leader. This isn't some gray area we're talking about with these very SPECIFIC items. I did not attempt to extrapolate beyond these items, but you have.

This is more or less what I was getting at.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

When is the last time you've heard someone in a talk or bearing their testimony say "I am a sinner."

Again, another interesting point in how Mormons view themselves. For Mormons, this would be akin to saying "I'm a bad person."

To non-Mormon Christians it would mean "I'm trying to be humble and accept Christ's atonement."

Last Sunday in sacrament meeting. He started off by saying "All we hear about at church are good examples. Well there are plenty of bad examples in life as well and we can learn from them too." He then covered a series of fascinating stories. He works as a therapists so he sees lots of things on a daily basis. At one point in his talk he said "I am a fast-driving, caffeine-loving, swearing, infrequent-temple-attending member of the church. And that's OK. We all struggle with things." He left off "democrat" (which is true).

Interestingly, folks are calling it the best talk in the history of the ward. Few people have the guts to be honest, but we crave honesty. It's wonderfully refreshing.