Could we get Pastor Wright a reality TV show

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What makes it relevant? Are you insane?

It's relevant because Obama sat and listened to this man for 20 years and never said a contrary word about Wright's message until he realized that it hurt his campaign.

That's what makes it relevant. If you can't see that, you're either so blinded by the Obama bullshit or are not very bright.

FWIW, I think you're very bright. So that leaves me with just one choice for an answer.

Cali has academic credentials to prove he scores well on IQ tests, whereas you and I only attended Utah, Marist and BYU, so we don't fare well.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

What excellent points? He blabbers on for about 3 paragraphs before getting to the only questions he was purporting to answer, then resolves them with one word: no. Great journalism there.

He listed a bunch of reasons why Wright/Obama is nothing like Hagee/McCain, essentially disemboweling your charge that they are similar. Small wonder you elected not to respond.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What makes it relevant? Are you insane?

It's relevant because Obama sat and listened to this man for 20 years and never said a contrary word about Wright's message until he realized that it hurt his campaign.

That's what makes it relevant. If you can't see that, you're either so blinded by the Obama bullshit or are not very bright.

FWIW, I think you're very bright. So that leaves me with just one choice for an answer.

How many contrary words have you said about Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff, Ezra Taft Benson, J. Reuben Clark and others? How many years have you been attending church reading their teachings and sustaining them? If you can't see that, you're either so blinded by your own bullcrap or not very bright. And I think you are bright.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

He listed a bunch of reasons why Wright/Obama is nothing like Hagee/McCain, essentially disemboweling your charge that they are similar. Small wonder you elected not to respond.

He presented one perspective without even bothering to address whether Hagee is an issue that should be considered (other than to say "no"). What analysis are you referring to? The fact that Wright's relationship to Obama isn't the exact same as Hagee's relationship to McCain hardly answers the question as to whether or not Hagee's relationship to McCain is troubling. FWIW, I think both issues are a stupid distraction from actual important issues. But you insist on arguing that only Wright's is relevant, so fine. Let me play devil's advocate here.

Obama was attracted to a spiritual message that he found at Trinity church where Wright was pastor. The actions cited in the silly article you posted were religious acts- baptism, spiritual guidance, etc. Those are not political actions, and the political speeches of Wright don't nullify any spiritual message also taught by Wright. To say otherwise is to throw your own church leaders teachings out the window and to disavow your faith. During your lifetime, Ezra Taft Benson said some alarming and offensive things on many occasions. Brigham Young was quite clearly racist, as were several of the church's prophets and even more of its apostles. Statements on polygamy, including some still included as part of the church's official doctrine in D&C are also alarming and offensive to many (including, may I note, you I assume, since you indicated in another thread that you always struggled with polygamy and the church's history with the practice). Nevertheless, you sit through church every week. You never disavow anything taught by the church. You certainly haven't asked for the polygamy portions of the D&C to be withdrawn. Is that somehow different than saying "God damn America" for certain of its actions (which your own Book of Mormon also says WILL occur if American doesn't live up to its promise)?

But what about Hagee? He has said equally offensive things (particularly with respect to Catholics). McCain sought out his POLITICAL endorsement. He wanted the political backing of a man whose political opinions are antithetical to American ideals. He met with the man, shook hands with the man, said very nice things about the man, secured the endorsement of the man, and continued to trot out that endorsement to gain the support of bigoted followers of that man when it suited him. He doesn't claim to have any sort of spiritual connection to the man or to derive any sort of benefit from his relationship with Hagee other than a political benefit. In other words, he sold himself to the devil for the support of a bigot who could also bring other bigoted followers into McCain's fold. How nice for him.

But wait, says the man in Oregon with Tex's support- Hagee didn't even baptize McCain's kids! No kidding. That is what makes it all the worse.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

He presented one perspective without even bothering to address whether Hagee is an issue that should be considered (other than to say "no"). What analysis are you referring to? The fact that Wright's relationship to Obama isn't the exact same as Hagee's relationship to McCain hardly answers the question as to whether or not Hagee's relationship to McCain is troubling. FWIW, I think both issues are a stupid distraction from actual important issues. But you insist on arguing that only Wright's is relevant, so fine. Let me play devil's advocate here.

Obama was attracted to a spiritual message that he found at Trinity church where Wright was pastor. The actions cited in the silly article you posted were religious acts- baptism, spiritual guidance, etc. Those are not political actions, and the political speeches of Wright don't nullify any spiritual message also taught by Wright. To say otherwise is to throw your own church leaders teachings out the window and to disavow your faith. During your lifetime, Ezra Taft Benson said some alarming and offensive things on many occasions. Brigham Young was quite clearly racist, as were several of the church's prophets and even more of its apostles. Statements on polygamy, including some still included as part of the church's official doctrine in D&C are also alarming and offensive to many (including, may I note, you I assume, since you indicated in another thread that you always struggled with polygamy and the church's history with the practice). Nevertheless, you sit through church every week. You never disavow anything taught by the church. You certainly haven't asked for the polygamy portions of the D&C to be withdrawn. Is that somehow different than saying "God damn America" for certain of its actions (which your own Book of Mormon also says WILL occur if American doesn't live up to its promise)?

But what about Hagee? He has said equally offensive things (particularly with respect to Catholics). McCain sought out his POLITICAL endorsement. He wanted the political backing of a man whose political opinions are antithetical to American ideals. He met with the man, shook hands with the man, said very nice things about the man, secured the endorsement of the man, and continued to trot out that endorsement to gain the support of bigoted followers of that man when it suited him. He doesn't claim to have any sort of spiritual connection to the man or to derive any sort of benefit from his relationship with Hagee other than a political benefit. In other words, he sold himself to the devil for the support of a bigot who could also bring other bigoted followers into McCain's fold. How nice for him.

But wait, says the man in Oregon with Tex's support- Hagee didn't even baptize McCain's kids! No kidding. That is what makes it all the worse.

The problem with the Wright/Obama connection is derived from the closeness of the relationship compounded by the radical and outspoken over-the-pulpit nature of his views.

Thus LDS comparison is pretty poor. I can hardly think of a General Conference or even a sacrament meeting where I've heard political rhetoric that in any degree approximates what Wright said, especially from anyone I've had a personal relationship with. Bad example. As to McCain seeking the endorsement, Reinhard rightly notes:

When somebody endorses a candidate, the endorser supports the views of the endorsed, not vice-versa. Those who'd like to turn Hagee into McCain's Wright have failed to notice that Hagee endorsed McCain. McCain didn't endorse Hagee.

Which is why, parenthetically, the Hamas endorsement of Obama is such a problem for him. It's not that Obama supports or is sympathetic to Hamas in any way ... it's that they like him.

In any case, the fact that the media has not picked up on the Hagee "issue" despite being so Obama-friendly is a bellwether that there's no "there" there.

[Tex]

Barack Obama has professed surprise at the radical and anti-American rants of his former pastor Jeremiah Wright, saying he was never in church when Wright made such comments. Obama must also not have read his church's popular newsmagazine either.

Wright founded Trumpet Magazine back in 1982, and as Stanley Kurtz writes in The Weekly Standard — "glance through even a single issue of Trumpet, and Wright's radical politics are everywhere."

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan was on the cover of a December 2007 issue along with Reverend Wright’s description of him as a "21st century giant."

In the May 2006 issue, Wright likened hurricane Katrina to "the flood waters of white supremacy", adding "that is an analogy that we need to drum into the heads of our African-American children."

And in another article Wright calls African-Americans "songbirds" who are locked in quote "this cage called America."

Maybe someone should check to see if Obama ever actually attended this church he claims he was a member of.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355795,00.html

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

How many contrary words have you said about Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff, Ezra Taft Benson, J. Reuben Clark and others? How many years have you been attending church reading their teachings and sustaining them? If you can't see that, you're either so blinded by your own bullcrap or not very bright. And I think you are bright.

I don't want to be POTUS. My beliefs will affect nobody but myself.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I don't want to be POTUS. My beliefs will affect nobody but myself.

But you are of the opinion that no Mormon should be president because of the radical statements of its leaders? I thought you supported Romney.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I don't want to be POTUS. My beliefs will affect nobody but myself.

Don't surrender to his bad analogy, il Pad. The premise is terrible. Wright/Obama is not BY/il Pad, and not just because you aren't running for President.

Ridiculous.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

But you are of the opinion that no Mormon should be president because of the radical statements of its leaders? I thought you supported Romney.

I was a Duncan Hunter guy. Romney would have received my vote because of economics, not politics.