Palestinian Right of Return

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I didn't really want to get into it, but the other option is genocide.

And basically, that's what happened to the American Indians.

A little bit of that, but more so, the opposite of what is happening in Israel. In Israel, the occupiers are smaller than the occupied. IN the US the occupiers became more numerous than the occupied and extinguished the Natives that way, rendering them irrelevant.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

A little bit of that, but more so, the opposite of what is happening in Israel. In Israel, the occupiers are smaller than the occupied. IN the US the occupiers became more numerous than the occupied and extinguished the Natives that way, rendering them irrelevant.

Well, maybe now you are understanding why Carter compared the Israeli occupation to apartheid. Is not the comparison somewhat apt? No citizenship, no voting, restriction of movement, impoverishment.

Of course, we found out that you can't criticize the Israeli occupation, as Carter was crucified by both democrats and republicans for his comments.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I didn't really want to get into it, but the other option is genocide.

And basically, that's what happened to the American Indians.

What about us overrunning the Mexicans here in the West and Southwest. Was that genocide too?

I wish the Israel and her neighbors could work things out. The Arabs haven't convinced me though they would be a good group to work in good faith with, especially on the Palestine issue. Can you imagine if Iran was where Mexico is and Syria was where Canada is.

I just don't know how much Isarael would have to give up to really get peace.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Well, maybe now you are understanding why Carter compared the Israeli occupation to apartheid. Is not the comparison somewhat apt? No citizenship, no voting, restriction of movement, impoverishment.

Of course, we found out that you can't criticize the Israeli occupation, as Carter was crucified by both democrats and republicans for his comments.

Coming out of left field.

In politics it is all about appearances, and the pro-Israeli lobby in Washington is effective and forceful. A politician does not have the luxury of pontificating or making philosophical comparisons, because his world is about appearances not reality.

Israel does not treat the Palestinians fairly.

Palestinians are understandably upset but neither side has done a good job of negotiating a workable solution. If peace will happen, it must come from the Israelis working in tandem with far-sighted Palestinians.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by BYU71

What about us overrunning the Mexicans here in the West and Southwest. Was that genocide too?

I don't think our "war" with the Mexicans could fairly be called genocide. We stole land from the Mexicans who had stolen it from the native americans. But many of our encounters with the native americans could certainly be called genocide. Or ethnic cleansing.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I don't think our "war" with the Mexicans could fairly be called genocide. We stole land from the Mexicans who had stolen it from the native americans. But many of our encounters with the native americans could certainly be called genocide. Or ethnic cleansing.

What was done to the Inidans was terrible. Too bad someone like Obama wasn't around. I am sure he could have succeded in getting the Indians to give up without any shots being fired.

There were a lot of rotten people back in the early days of America. We could probably trace Cheney and Bush's bloodlines back to them.

[Tex]

I love how our evolved sensibilities in the 21st century permit us to look down our noses on every conflict in the entire history of the world, and properly categorize each one as genocidal, ethnic cleansing, or unrighteous occupation.

All the while, we sit in our air-conditioned offices and enjoy the fruits. How beautifully self-righteous.

[MikeWaters]

Tex we have some space to think about what is right, and how conflicts can be resolved. Maybe Israelis and Palestinians do not have that space, and that is part of the problem. They think a Foxnews approach is going to solve their problems.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

I love how our evolved sensibilities in the 21st century permit us to look down our noses on every conflict in the entire history of the world, and properly categorize each one as genocidal, ethnic cleansing, or unrighteous occupation.

All the while, we sit in our air-conditioned offices and enjoy the fruits. How beautifully self-righteous.

Yet again, Tex sides with "The Man". Shocking.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Tex we have some space to think about what is right, and how conflicts can be resolved. Maybe Israelis and Palestinians do not have that space, and that is part of the problem. They think a Foxnews approach is going to solve their problems.

I don't know if there are solutions. It might be arrogant, given current political configurations that a workable, peaceable solution exists. Current situation seems like a disaster, I agree. And although my Jewish friends virtually disowned me when I expressed the opinion, that maybe, just maybe Israel should back off the occupied territories, I have not found a solution which enough of the players are willing to try.

Politically you're going to be damned no matter what.