Hillary is done

[woot]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

People are a funny bunch. A man comes along who is a great communicator, and suddenly that is a fault. "He makes us feel good! Run for your lives!" Apparently, they prefer the alternative of uninspiring and stupid (the last 8 years have conditioned us, I guess).

A man comes along who has laid out in-depth proposals on every topic imagineable (and all of which are easily available on the web), and the response is "He has no ideas! How can he? Rhetorical ability and ideas are mutually exclusive!"

A man comes along with as much or more political experience than some of our greatest presidents and who is black, and people say "He is only here because he is black! How dare he compete for the presidency?"

A man comes along who excites emotion in others to a degree unfamiliar in recent American political experience, and people say "He must think of himself as the secular messiah (whatever that means)!" This despite the fact that he has said nothing of the sort.

Obama isn't perfect. That much is clear. He won't be a perfect leader. Obvious. He has had dealings in the past with unsavory characters. Show me a politician who hasn't. But his ability to inspire and motivate is hardly a reason he should be mocked or criticized, and his intelligence is unquestionable. He is running his campaign based on donations from individuals rather than PACs, and that scares the lobbyists and the Washington insiders. They haven't had a president as free from political favors as Obama in decades.

McCain and the GOP know they are outmatched, as does Clinton. Which is precisely why they are grasping at straws in their criticisms right now.

They had all better come with something better than "But look how inspiring he is! That's awful!" Or they are going to get steamrolled.

Good post. I wonder if the standard criticisms of Obama are due to the general anti-intellectual sentiment across the nation. I don't think the people would mind having an intelligent person in office, just not one that is so obviously intelligent. McCain seems the usual bumbler, so he'd be a good fit if it turns out that he's actually intelligent.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Obama isn't perfect. That much is clear. He won't be a perfect leader. Obvious. He has had dealings in the past with unsavory characters. Show me a politician who hasn't. But his ability to inspire and motivate is hardly a reason he should be mocked or criticized, and his intelligence is unquestionable.

I agree.

He is running his campaign based on donations from individuals rather than PACs...

That is correct. He does have ten lobbyist bundlers, but then Hillary has twenty and McCain has sixty.

They had all better come with something better than "But look how inspiring he is! That's awful!" Or they are going to get steamrolled.

I sincerely doubt the McCain campaign would rely on any such thing. There is plenty for the McCain camp to exploit, should they choose to do so.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Uh...the thinking type?

It's true: Obama's strength thus far has been with better-educated, fairly affluent Dems and swing voters. Problem is, these are the ones most likely to listen past the rhetoric.

His has been, to a large extent, a cult of personality. So far, not many weaknesses have been exposed, but there's some creepy shit back there if you look. Real implications regarding his character.

I honestly don't know what to think. I'm terribly disappointed in McCain. He's morphing into something I don't think I like.

I wonder if in the end, we're back to square one, and the general election vote will simply come down to the war. Mr Patriot defend the US to the gates of hell vs Mr Cut our losses, save American lives, and get out now.

Thoughtful red state potential swing voter.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by woot

Good post. I wonder if the standard criticisms of Obama are due to the general anti-intellectual sentiment across the nation.

I doubt it. I see repeated accusations, even here among the generally well-informed, that Obama is dumb as a rock and full of fluff.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I doubt it. I see repeated accusations, even here among the generally well-informed, that Obama is dumb as a rock and full of fluff.

That's true, but search for the word "idiot" here and particularly on CB and you'll find that it's the standard word for "anyone who disagrees with me." Perhaps I'm too generous, but I think that if you pinned those types down they would acknowledge that the people they're criticizing are intelligent. The less brain-washed might even acknowledge that their political enemies probably arrived at their positions for good reasons.

I think it's just a lazy way of disagreeing with someone without having to actually deal with constructing arguments, rather than an actual attack on the intelligence of the person in question.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I doubt it. I see repeated accusations, even here among the generally well-informed, that Obama is dumb as a rock and full of fluff.

I don't believe he's dumb at all, but he's pitching his campaign to make it look as if he's a common man by going with a silly, stupid, "we can change" theme. He has plenty of unsavory characters, and he is very slick, but willing to do anything to get ahead. His abortion stance is very extreme. The comments of his wife are plum for the picking.

He is not dumb, but his positions while popular on Main Street, when collected together are dumb policy, and too expensive. Now, Cali and Woot will try to assuage the more economically sensitive among us, "well, he may lie about that stuff to get elected, but don't worry he won't be able to get it on with the Congress."

Color me unimpressed that a man is willing to lie and to ask for too much, knowing he will garner more sympathy from the public while allowing those who know economics for taking the blame for doing the right thing. In other words, he wants to look like hero while doing the WRONG thing.

He is a veritable Manchurian Candidate, although I'm not implying he represents the interests, knowingly, of foreign interests. Nor do I imply he is a plant, only that his weakness and naivete would play into the interests of foreign nationals, due to his weak at the knees policies.

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't believe he's dumb at all, but he's pitching his campaign to make it look as if he's a common man by going with a silly, stupid, "we can change" theme. He has plenty of unsavory characters, and he is very slick, but willing to do anything to get ahead. His abortion stance is very extreme. The comments of his wife are plum for the picking.

He is not dumb, but his positions while popular on Main Street, when collected together are dumb policy, and too expensive. Now, Cali and Woot will try to assuage the more economically sensitive among us, "well, he may lie about that stuff to get elected, but don't worry he won't be able to get it on with the Congress."

Color me unimpressed that a man is willing to lie and to ask for too much, knowing he will garner more sympathy from the public while allowing those who know economics for taking the blame for doing the right thing. In other words, he wants to look like hero while doing the WRONG thing.

He is a veritable Manchurian Candidate, although I'm not implying he represents the interests, knowingly, of foreign interests. Nor do I imply he is a plant, only that his weakness and naivete would play into the interests of foreign nationals, due to his weak at the knees policies.

While I recognize that all politicians are liars to one degree or another, you seem to be trying to play both sides of the issue here. You cry about how much he will have to raise taxes to pay for his programs, then you cry about how he won't be able to get his programs implemented, and is therefore lying about what he will accomplish. Perhaps I'm missing the boat here, so please explain what he has lied about so far.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

People are a funny bunch. A man comes along who is a great communicator, and suddenly that is a fault. "He makes us feel good! Run for your lives!" Apparently, they prefer the alternative of uninspiring and stupid (the last 8 years have conditioned us, I guess).

A man comes along who has laid out in-depth proposals on every topic imagineable (and all of which are easily available on the web), and the response is "He has no ideas! How can he? Rhetorical ability and ideas are mutually exclusive!"

A man comes along with as much or more political experience than some of our greatest presidents and who is black, and people say "He is only here because he is black! How dare he compete for the presidency?"

A man comes along who excites emotion in others to a degree unfamiliar in recent American political experience, and people say "He must think of himself as the secular messiah (whatever that means)!" This despite the fact that he has said nothing of the sort.

Obama isn't perfect. That much is clear. He won't be a perfect leader. Obvious. He has had dealings in the past with unsavory characters. Show me a politician who hasn't. But his ability to inspire and motivate is hardly a reason he should be mocked or criticized, and his intelligence is unquestionable. He is running his campaign based on donations from individuals rather than PACs, and that scares the lobbyists and the Washington insiders. They haven't had a president as free from political favors as Obama in decades.

McCain and the GOP know they are outmatched, as does Clinton. Which is precisely why they are grasping at straws in their criticisms right now.

They had all better come with something better than "But look how inspiring he is! That's awful!" Or they are going to get steamrolled.

Take your condescension and stick it.

Obama is a hard-core socialist. You can easily find that by looking on the web, but I'd guess you'd ignore it because you don't want to admit it or you're a socialist like he is.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

While I recognize that all politicians are liars to one degree or another, you seem to be trying to play both sides of the issue here. You cry about how much he will have to raise taxes to pay for his programs, then you cry about how he won't be able to get his programs implemented, and is therefore lying about what he will accomplish. Perhaps I'm missing the boat here, so please explain what he has lied about so far.

If he were able to get all his programs implemented, it would be economically catastrophic. Others are trying to appease me by claiming "he's just lying to get elected but the Congress will slow him down." I'm not convinced he won't start implementing many of them at high cost to us.

However, perhaps he views like this, "hey, I'll promise them anything to get in, and if I can get some of it so be it, and anybody who stops me will get mowed down for not following me."

"And if any tough choices must be made, I'll let the others decide and take the blame."

So I can see that he's lying at every promise, every stage of the game. The more I consider his conniving manner, his devious plans, the more evil he appears to be.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Take your condescension and stick it.

Obama is a hard-core socialist. You can easily find that by looking on the web, but I'd guess you'd ignore it because you don't want to admit it or you're a socialist like he is.

His speeches sound like condescensions to me, and he doesn't make me feel good, but rather sick to my stomach. I recognize him as a capable adversary. I would have recognized many of the world tyrants as capable adversaries.

He makes people feel good by lying and avoiding the hard discussions.