Temple Recommend required to work at BYU

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Can you give me an honest example of how this happened where you went to school (Utah?) which is unlikely to happen at BYU?

Ok Honest example...

Rodin Exhibit at the Y.... I have seen "the kiss" in Paris and to be honest I was surprised it caused such an uproar. When I went to Utah I was encouraged to see every kind of Art I could.

Going to college IMO isnt just about attending classes and hearing what teachers say. Its the whole experience of learning, living away from home for the first time, being exposed to many new ideas etc...

IMO byu limits the ability of young adults to experience these things. The honor code among others is one way it does that. I think it represents a grand mistrust of our young adults. Parents who still want to control their kid (I know I am generalizing) can send them to byu and they have curfews and dress codes etc.. IMO it doesnt foster good in most of the students (just pisses them off) and if they do commit a sin they actually have an big incentive not to repent through the proper channels. I find that last statement the exact opposite of how Christ himself would want it.

As Mr. Solon has said...they are a private university so they have a right to do what they want. I for one would never go there and would never want any of my kids to attend there.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

would never want any of my kids to attend there.

What if they wanted to attend, would you object?

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I don't know for sure, but knowing a few religion professors on a personal basis, I would guess that this would not be received well by many BYU religion prof's. It might get you a visit with your bishop.

Bottom line on this is: look at BYU's religion department as being similar to any other institute program. That kind of stuff is not going to fly at an institute program either. Look at the rest of BYU completely seperate from their religion department.

I had several U of U institute teachers who openly discussed issues that put the church in bad light. One of the funnest days I ever had at the U was when our institute teacher invited anyone to go to the salt lake cemetery where we went to several graves and stories were told about the people who were buried there. Trust me this wasn't rah rah stories but true ones like the super uptight brother of Hyrum Smith's wife. JS told him if he didnt go get drunk and loosen up a bit he would die within a month. He of course didnt get drunk and he died of a heart attack within a month (btw I am paraphrasing as this day was almost 6 years ago). I do remember the older people who came on the field trip and how they were so aghast at the stories...

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Archaea

What if they wanted to attend, would you object?

I have said (in this thread I think) that I would never pay for my kids to go there. Never is a strong word and if i had a kid who really wanted to go there I guess I would have to burn that bridge when I come to it.

In short I would object definitely but not paying for college is up in the air... hopefully I never have kid turn to the dark side.

[Cali Coug]

I actually think BYU has a lot of academic freedom issues. It isn't solely related to church history topics, either.

Take political science, for example. Can you have an open debate about the best forms of government, or would someone who takes the position that the US Constitution may not be the best form of government be silenced by his peers and the faculty because the prophets have said the Constitution was inspired?

Can science professors explore evolution? The fact that BYU had the largest collection of dinosaur bones in the world stored under the seats at LES (until they gave them away because they didn't know how to acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs) would indicate some issues in that area.

In English classes, can you read a wide array of literature without worrying that selection of a certain book could get you an interview with the bishop (and this HAS happened on many occasions with the English faculty at BYU which I can attest to from personal experience with relatives on the English faculty).

How open of a discussion about non-LDS religions can you have in theological courses?

There are lots of issues of academic freedom. Some are unintentionally created (by hiring a homogenous faculty and recruiting a fairly homogenous student body).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I actually think BYU has a lot of academic freedom issues. It isn't solely related to church history topics, either.

Take political science, for example. Can you have an open debate about the best forms of government, or would someone who takes the position that the US Constitution may not be the best form of government be silenced by his peers and the faculty because the prophets have said the Constitution was inspired?

Can science professors explore evolution? The fact that BYU had the largest collection of dinosaur bones in the world stored under the seats at LES (until they gave them away because they didn't know how to acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs) would indicate some issues in that area.

In English classes, can you read a wide array of literature without worrying that selection of a certain book could get you an interview with the bishop (and this HAS happened on many occasions with the English faculty at BYU which I can attest to from personal experience with relatives on the English faculty).

How open of a discussion about non-LDS religions can you have in theological courses?

There are lots of issues of academic freedom. Some are unintentionally created (by hiring a homogenous faculty and recruiting a fairly homogenous student body).

Are you speculating about these, or do you have firsthand experience? I seem to remember a professor taking a Marxist viewpoint for an entire semester engendering the loathing of his students but my delight.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Take political science, for example. Can you have an open debate about the best forms of government, or would someone who takes the position that the US Constitution may not be the best form of government be silenced by his peers and the faculty because the prophets have said the Constitution was inspired?

Yes, you can.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Can science professors explore evolution? The fact that BYU had the largest collection of dinosaur bones in the world stored under the seats at LES (until they gave them away because they didn't know how to acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs) would indicate some issues in that area.

This one really makes me laugh. The notion that BYU getting rid of the bones had anything to do with "didn't know how to acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs" is beyond absurd. These bones were collected (for the most part) by "Dinosaur Jim" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Jensen) a fairly famous paleontologist who worked at BYU for several years. Jim died in 1998 and BYU gave the bones away to a museum because they did not have the resources to house them permanently. Evolution is taught without apology at BYU.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

In English classes, can you read a wide array of literature without worrying that selection of a certain book could get you an interview with the bishop (and this HAS happened on many occasions with the English faculty at BYU which I can attest to from personal experience with relatives on the English faculty).

That could be true. But after your previous zinger, I am skeptical.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I actually think BYU has a lot of academic freedom issues. It isn't solely related to church history topics, either.

It seems like you think the BYU faculty and administration carries the same mentality of a typical Cougarboard member. In my experience this wasn't not the case among faculty members, or at least that's what I was conditioned to believe.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Brian

Dude, you don't know how ugly am I and how little I dated (c:

Camille tells me you weren't that ugly - just that you were weird.

Of course, she was talking about high school.

[UtahDan]

Getting in late here, but all I know (and I DO think that many issues raised here about BYU are legitimate) is that running down BYU in front of your kids is the same thing as running down the church in front of your kids. Not that I think it actually is that same thing, but these are subtleties that kids don't appreciate. Steer them away from the church's school and you are steering them away from the church. That is the practical side of this, IMO. This from a person who transferred from the Y.