Let's stop beating around the bush

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

Mike, do you truly believe that your 'response' to the church's statement was so devastating that no one is able to respond? Are you ractually that impressed with your own work?

of course not. that's why I am requesting a response.

Having said that, do I think the average person on this site can come up with a meaningful response? No.

The only responses in support of the statement have been of the quality of a certain NBA analyst I know in Idaho.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

of course not. that's why I am requesting a response.

Having said that, do I think the average person on this site can come up with a meaningful response? No.

The only responses in support of the statement have been of the quality of a certain NBA analyst I know in Idaho.

I am too average to try, but hopefully one of the smart guys will take it on.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Signed,
John D. Lee

And he paid the price, didn't he?

You still haven't convinced me that yours in the correct opinion. You've only convinced me that you think yours in the correct opinion.

[LA Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

There are actually only a few people on this site that do their own thinking (Pelagius is one of them). So the rest of you that don't want to think, that's fine. Just leave us alone as we hash this out. Leave your tomatoes. bananas, ripe mangos on your tray. Cinch up your bibs, pay attention, and shut up.

Hey Mike, I think I walked into a buzz saw here. I simply saw Seattle's comments and responded. I've known him a long time. I am so new I did not know of your lengthy critique of the Church's statement on Prop 8 (it is more than a "press release"). Seattle and others who know me know I love to mix it up, but right now I do not have time to do that with you on this issue. I really doubt it would make any difference anyway.

To me, the press release remains an excellent statement of the Church's position on Prop 8. You don't have to like the Church's position.

Also, IMO the way you talk to people on this board with whom you disagree is disgraceful by any standard. (Example above.) I understand you actually are the proprietor of this board, which, if true, makes your behavior all the more astonishing.

But something tells me I won't change your mind or your approach. Okay. To borrow your phrase, your problem, not mine.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by LA Ute

Also, IMO the way you talk to people on this board with whom you disagree is disgraceful by any standard. (Example above.) I understand you actually are the proprietor of this board, which, if true, makes your behavior all the more astonishing.

But something tells me I won't change your mind or your approach. Okay. To borrow your phrase, your problem, not mine.

I concur. It is occasiobnally disgraceful and astonishing. This is why some of us just average folks ignore a lot of the hoo-ha.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by LA Ute

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/228...8047VbDA_w.jpg

A broken URL link?

My time is limited and this is the sort of juvenile discussion I can get plenty of on the Ute board. Will someone please fill me in?

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

A broken URL link?

My time is limited and this is the sort of juvenile discussion I can get plenty of on the Ute board. Will someone please fill me in?

Your time is limited? Its almost midnight on a Saturday night...

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by LA Ute

Hey Mike, I think I walked into a buzz saw here. I simply saw Seattle's comments and responded. I've known him a long time. I am so new I did not know of your lengthy critique of the Church's statement on Prop 8 (it is more than a "press release"). Seattle and others who know me know I love to mix it up, but right now I do not have time to do that with you on this issue. I really doubt it would make any difference anyway.

To me, the press release remains an excellent statement of the Church's position on Prop 8. You don't have to like the Church's position.

Also, IMO the way you talk to people on this board with whom you disagree is disgraceful by any standard. (Example above.) I understand you actually are the proprietor of this board, which, if true, makes your behavior all the more astonishing.

But something tells me I won't change your mind or your approach. Okay. To borrow your phrase, your problem, not mine.

Yeah, you're probably right. Waste of time to come up with something.

Actually the press release (or whatever it is, don't know what to call it besides that) is apparently a rehashing of Catholic scholars' work, which is why some of it doesn't really fit with LDS doctrine as traditionally understood (I say that, because SU has often made the point that it is actually somewhat hard to tell what LDS doctrine is on a lot of issues). If you go into the press release with the belief that marriage and sex are almost exclusively for the purpose of procreation, it makes a heckuva lot more sense. Of course, in a church that doesn't oppose contraception, it's kinda hard to follow the lead of the Catholics on that one. But whatever. It's a little bit like trying to get philosophy from a gas station.

You've put yourself in a unique position here. You are apparently a fan favorite here among many. You jump in, make an undefended assertion, which I challenge. I really do think it is an awful press release, full of sophistry and some lies/deceptions--and it is clear that someone who believes this doesn't have the proper tone to merit a response.

So then if I challenge your views, I am doing nothing more than "running you off." So in the end you add nothing, and I am a meanie.

Heavens, if I am running off people whom I don't like, or whose opinions I disagree with, I'm doing a poor job. Unfortunately, the more one despises me, the more likely one is to stick around.

And I still wait for Pelagius.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Colly Wolly

Your time is limited? Its almost midnight on a Saturday night...

Not on planet tripletron.

[SeattleUte]

I just reread Mike's critique of the press release. I stand by my prior assessment of it. Well done, Mike.

Again, I think the press release is too long. It should have just said, "We think same gender sex is an abomination, the worst sin possible. So we'll have to agree to disagree."

Going on at length about children purportedly experiencing gender confusion, etc., absent any citation and with the rest of us knowing full well there is a lot of experience out there with children living in gay civil unions and even marriage insults our intelligence.

Ultimately, the press release is just a bunch of unsupported conclusory assertions, including fear mongering. It is nothing more than a bald statement of belief. Correct? Religions are entitled to make conclusory assertions, I suppose, but when they carry on a pretense of being analytical I find it offensive. Why do they try so hard? I'd have respected them a lot more had they just re-stated their fundamentalist belief and left it at that.

Finally, they duck the whole moral problem of sexual preference not being a choice and the impracticality of what they are asking gays to do. I guess they think there's no problem with gays being unhappy because they think they're lesser humans. Which brings us back to the whole point of gays' desire to marry.